King or Garmin?

[Lood]

I'm planning to upgrade my M20F's panel some time in the future. At the moment, I have the following installed:

1 x KX175B with VOR indicator, KN62 DME, KR87 ADF, Narco selfcontained VOR/ Glideslope indicator with marker beacons. I use a 196 GPS on the yoke. What I want is definately two comm radio's and I am not too happy with a yoke mounted GPS - I like it panel mounted. Because of the current Bendix King ADF an DME, it kinda makes sense to me to maybe look at a King GPS/ Comm plus a KX197. On the other hand, Garmin seems to be advancing with huge steps so what am I to do?

Price would definately influence my decision strongly. If I go Garmin, I would probable be looking at their GNC series GPS/ Comm - not a 430, and I would still have to get that second comm. My current transponder is the old Cessna type. I would like to replace that as well with either a King or Garmin. So what do the experts suggest?

[mph5790]

I had the same dilema.  I had all King equipment in my last plane so I was not opposed to buying a king GPS if I could save $$$.   The problem is you can buy a used one but the avionics shops will charge a lot more than new to install if you want to file /G taking away the savings.  You will still need to address the radio issue which put me over the top.  I went with the 430 and put a 696 next to it in the panel.  They tied them together so if I load an approach in the 430 it gets loaded into my 696 automatically.  Also,  when I sold my last plane the new owner threw away my KLN-94 to put in a 430. 

[podair]

Lood, do you need an IFR GPS? If so , I would strongly suggest a 430. Once all the installation cost is factored in, the extra cost is worth it and your resale value will improve substantially too. My Robin had a VFR 250XL GPS Com and it was pretty good, although not as good a moving map as the 196 which I have on my Mooney yoke too. The Mooney has a GPS155XL which is the same unit but IFR (the com version is the 300), and it is pretty good but I wish I had a 430 , as it is now the de facto standard, can use it as an MFD and takes less space in the crowded panel than all the other bits . My only experience of the old king units is the 135 and it is pretty crude compared to the 250XL.I am thinking of upgrading the 196 on my yoke to a 495 to get colour! The 495/496 screen is higher resolution than a 430

With the 430 you get a mini MFD as well, which is useful if you then want to add a strikefinder etc. Also it does make non precision approaches easier, you can overlay it on the 430 even if not in the database and use the OBS mode, whilst the 155XL/300XL only allows you to use a cdi or hsi if it is a genuine GPS approach or NDB with GPS overlay (which sadly does not exist in Europe).

 

[Lood]

I've made a few calculations and like speed mods, it is far better to buy a M20J for instance that allready has the avionics you like installed or at least part thereof. The exchange rate would cause me to end up paying more than 20% of my Mooney's purchase price for a 430 alone. That would be overcapitalising it considerably and I would never get it back. M20F's seldom fetch more than R600k here in South Africa - no matter what they have installed. I paid R500k for mine and the first MPI cost me another R100k. Funny how all the answers always lead to a M20J in the end. A decent M20J could be picked up around R800k here. It probably won't have a 430, but overall they are all very well equipped and full IF. So now the hardest part would be to get that extra R200k - R300k for a M20J.

I'll probably just fit a second comm to my Mooney start looking for a J model. I'm not sure about the US or UK, but here the working NDB's can probably be counted on my fingers and none of them that fail are repaired. So I could just as well remove and sell the KR87 while its still worth something.

[N207LS]

I hear what you are saying about the aircraft upgrade versus the panel upgrade.  I went through the same thing.  My problem was that I every J or K that I looked at would still have needed something to make me really happy (read as more $$$ to invest).  I ended up going the panel upgrade route instead.  For me this came down to a couple of points...  1.  My plane only has 450 hours on the engine overhaul and all ready had the 201 speed mods and Power Flow exhaust, essentially making it almost a J in terms of speed and effeciency.  2.  I knew how my plane had been maintained...  I knew that I had addressed all of the hidden gremlins lurking around and I was somewhat hesitant to take on new problems...  3.  I realized that I would be "over-improving" my G model, but what was the value of happiness and pride of ownership...  I know that this sounds somewhat simplified, but for me I found it better to improve on what I had.

Now as far as the GPS goes, I really believe that you should buy the best avionics that you can afford.  I bought a Garmin 530 WAAS and LOVE IT!  Yes, it was expensive, but I fly in a lot of IMC and the 530 was worth every penny.  I also have a 496 with XM weather on the yoke (that communicates with the 530) and it is really a great combination.  Prior to the 530 I had a Apollo SL-60 GPS/Comm and it worked adequately.  If I was flying mostly in VFR conditions, I would say that it would be okay.  My wife had a Beech Sport (for her private and instrument trainer) and it had an Apollo IFR Moving Map GPS/Comm (not sure which model it was) and it was okay, but not real easy to read when getting bounced around in the clouds (it had an amber colored, very small screen).  I really think that the Garmin 430/530 is really the way to go if you fly much IFR, if not then I would suggest keeping what you have and upgrade the yoke mount to a 396, 469 or 696 (at least you can take it with you when/if you buy another plane). 

Best of luck with you decision and most importantly enjoy flying your Mooney!

Aaron

[Lood]

I won't be doing any IF flying. Maybe some night flying at some stage but thats about it. Contrary to the US where, as I understand, an instrument rating is focused much more on a huge oral exam and the practical and actuall flying part, in South Africa it is almost purely an academic thing. The theory exams are very difficult and the amount of work is substancial. Most pilots here agree that is much more worth it to rather do a full comm licence as the requirements are basically the same as for an IF rating. As a result, there are very few private pilots here that has more than a normal PPL and maybe a night rating.

Back to the panel upgrade though, it makes sense to just get that second comm radio and upgrade the yoke mounted GPS. Do any of you guys know whether a King KT76A can replace the RT-359A without changing the tray and wiring?

[PTK]

BEFORE YOU BUY THE OVERPRICED AND UNDERACHIEVING GARMINS READ THIS:

http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/garmin-gps

[Lood]

Thanks for all the feedback! At the end I did the following:

I had all the old avionics taken out, together with all, and I mean ALL, wiring. I had new harnesses made up from end to end and I installed, from top to bottom:

King KMA24 audio panel, King KX155 Nav/com with glideslope, King Ky197 com, King KT79 transponder. I'm still waiting for the VOR/GS indicator, but all the wiring for that has been done too, so it's just a plug in exercise. Everything works 100% and although I would have like to go the G430,etc way, I just couldn't afford it and I might have fallen into the over capitalising trap. I also had a new JPI EDM700 fitted which I enjoy very much and I had the cowl closure mod done. I'll take pictures and post them in the gallery some time.