Emergency Checklist - Engine Fire In Flight

[cnoe]

I'm updating some stuff on my iPad including my primary checklists. In case you care I'm using Aeropad to display checklists.

Anyway... when adding the "Emergency Procedures" there were two things that I'd like opinions on.

1) My POH ('78 J) states (paraphrased):

ENGINE FIRE - IN FLIGHT

Fuel Selector - OFF

Throttle - Closed

Mixture - Idle Cutoff

Ventilation/Heating - OFF/CLOSED

Landing Gear - Down (or as required)

Flaps - Down as required

If fire is not extinguished, attempt to increase airflow over the engine by increasing glide speed.

 

My thinking would be that in addition to increasing airspeed to help snuff out an engine fire it might be appropriate to open up the cowl flaps as well (when diving to increase airspeed). What do y'all think about that idea?

 

2) For an off-field landing there is no mention of "unlatching the cabin door" in the POH. In many checklists this is SOP. Should that step be added to the Mooney's checklist? I do have an emergency release inside on my baggage door but I would think that having the passenger door unlatched would be appropriate in most conditions. Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks

 

[Hank]

My Owners Manual says, "in case of engine fire, turn cabin heater off." I'll add your steps to my own Emergency Procedures. Attached below is ALL of my Emergency section.

The first two pages are the Title Page for Section V, Emergency Procedures, and a blank Log of Revisions.

[jetdriven]

For a real engine fire is open the overhead scoop and forward vents fully   It's clean air. Stick your face in it and it's a blast of clean air in a smoky cockpit.

Gear down and disregard the Vle speed.  Take it to redline airspeed or, that not doing the job with a deteriorating situation, 10% beyond.   You can probably get 4000 FPM of descent like this.Your objective is to get on the ground as soon as possible since you may only have 2 minutes or so before a fire overwhelms you. Maybe even less.  I've written on this before but the situation deteriorates out of hand before you realize it's out of hand.  Like icing but worse.  A fellow pilot I used to fly with had a fire after takeoff. At around 1000' he pulled the mixture and shut off the fuel but it didn't matter since the gascolator broke and it was dumping fuel on the exhaust.  In the 30 seconds it took to get it on the ground the airplane was full of smoke and he couldn't see the lady in the back seat he just reached into the smoke and grabbed her. 

Icing.   Smoke in the cockpit.  Do something right now. 

[Hank]

I've also practiced emergency spiral descents, amazing vertical speed gear up, while staying under control and no worries about airframe damage prior to the ground. But it won't blow out the flames like a Vne descent will do. It's been a while, but I think the spiral vertical speed was greater than the straight ahead, push the yoke forward dive.

[RocketAviator]

Chuck

Do you have the smoke hoods?  I carry 2 in my pilots bag that I keep beside me.

[Houman]

7 hours ago, RocketAviator said:

Chuck

Do you have the smoke hoods?  I carry 2 in my pilots bag that I keep beside me.

What kind and brand of smoke hoods do you have, just wondering if I should add that to my flight bag.

Thanks

[Yetti]

I say close the cowl flap.  You are trying to eliminate oxygen to a fire.  The airspeed is to push the flame away from the source so you then just have the source with no flame.   I kind of skeered myself the other day by thinking I would play strafing run at something.  The plane will speed up very very fast when pushed forward.   My transition pilot (former F=18 pliot)  was saying that a wing over in a Mooney is not that great of an idea because of how fast the plane speeds up.   I would think flaps out, gear out and a spiral would have you on the ground in no time.   also in a spiral the flames would be pushed out to the side instead of into the cabin.(I think)

 

[midlifeflyer]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

My Owners Manual says, "in case of engine fire, turn cabin heater off." I'll add your steps to my own Emergency Procedures. Attached below is ALL of my Emergency section.

The first two pages are the Title Page for Section V, Emergency Procedures, and a blank Log of Revisions.

I see you have one of the newer M20C manuals :D

[aviatoreb]

32 minutes ago, Houman said:

What kind and brand of smoke hoods do you have, just wondering if I should add that to my flight bag.

Thanks

I have a smoke hood - but I doubt it will ever be useful even in the (knock on wood) event of a fire.  I mean if there is a real fire - and you are trying to descend at 4000fpm and there is smoke in the cockpit - can you see yourself fiddling with trying to don your smoke hood.  Hopefully I am correct in saying a real fire is an exceedingly rare event (knock on wood again).  Perhaps if there is a "little" fire, maybe electrical?  Nonetheless I keep one smoke hood for the pilot (me), not in a bag to find when half panicked, but on the floor right behind the pilot seat where I can grab it without looking.  It is one of those one's in sort of a plastic jar that you twist, grab and pull on.  I also have two accessible fire extinguishers, but those are only for a fire in the cockpit and won't put put out a fire firewall forward.  I am imagining it more for egress.  And about egress - who has a little hammer to smash out of the window...I do.  And if you have all these goodies and they are hidden in your flight bag in the baggage compartment....hmmmm.

[Yetti]

I am using my legs if needed to get past something door/window.  Tapping on Plexiglas with a tiny hammer does not seem like a plan.

[N33GG]

For all the CB's out there...

The big clear, or semi-clear bags that you cook a turkey in, make a pretty good smoke hood.  Cheap enough to have on board, and you can even practice without worrying about wasting a real smoke hood.  Try to put on retaining plenty of air in the hood to breath while you get the plane down...not a tight fit!  This was recommended in a FIRC many years ago.  I carry a couple in my flight bag for whatever I am flying.

FWIW

[aviatoreb]

26 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I am using my legs if needed to get past something door/window.  Tapping on Plexiglas with a tiny hammer does not seem like a plan.

The tiny hammer seriously works.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017HAI52A?keywords=escape%20hammer&psc=1&qid=1446995094&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1-spons

I tried it once a few years ago when my hangar neighbor was replacing windows - he let me break his windows with my hammer - and he even thanked me for it.  It was a Mooney M20C no less.  The little hammer did MUCH better than I would have hoped.  A tiny tap and the wind essentially disappeared.

Planning on using you legs assumes that you will be in a good position with free leg movement, healthy legs, etc.  Get a hammer too - its $11.99 for two.  A price even a CB can love.

Oh - and my emergency equipment like this - I have it tied with a string to my side pouch - because I am imaging what might happen in a sudden stop in a crash - everything goes flying forward and now you are looking for your missing hammer.

[FlyDave]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I have a smoke hood - but I doubt it will ever be useful even in the (knock on wood) event of a fire.  I mean if there is a real fire - and you are trying to descend at 4000fpm and there is smoke in the cockpit - can you see yourself fiddling with trying to don your smoke hood.  Hopefully I am correct in saying a real fire is an exceedingly rare event (knock on wood again).  Perhaps if there is a "little" fire, maybe electrical?  Nonetheless I keep one smoke hood for the pilot (me), not in a bag to find when half panicked, but on the floor right behind the pilot seat where I can grab it without looking.  It is one of those one's in sort of a plastic jar that you twist, grab and pull on.  I also have two accessible fire extinguishers, but those are only for a fire in the cockpit and won't put put out a fire firewall forward.  I am imagining it more for egress.  And about egress - who has a little hammer to smash out of the window...I do.  And if you have all these goodies and they are hidden in your flight bag in the baggage compartment....hmmmm.

Erik,

I bought one of these hammers after your post a month or so ago. I think a smoke hood is also a good idea but the logistics in an emergency may be difficult.

I think putting these things plus any other emergency items in the right seat back pocket or some sort of easy access bag attached to that seat is the way to go. What else does the group think should be in this emergency quick access bag?

Also, has anyone opened one of these smoke hoods and put it on for practice? I think I'll buy 3 - 1 so I know how it works and the other 2 in case of the unexpected....Yikes!

Dave

[cnoe]

Thanks for all the input guys. It seems like the most likely source of an engine fire in our Mooneys would be due to a compromised hose or a broken injector line. After talking with Byron I removed every single thing that had been previously attached to my injector lines over time (such as ignition leads that were cable-tied for support). And I look thoroughly at those lines every time the cowl is off. I do have the typical blue stains near each injector that occur after shutdown in the summer (damn GAMIs) but that shouldn't be an in-flight risk. I don't think of engine oil to be much of a fire risk either.

I like Byron's idea of using the roof vent for fresh air along with the proposed 4,000 fpm descent. Like Hank I may want to throw out a bunch of drag and see what sort of descent I can muster in a practice scenario (Note to self: don't do this with my wife on-board).

And Lacee's mention of smoke hoods intrigues me. I've never contemplated that option. They might be even more useful for an electrical problem than an engine fire. Hmmmmmm.

Yetti's comment about pushing the flames to the side in a spiral might have some merit. It would suck to have the flames spread underneath the fuselage with a major leak.

Obviously the best plan is prevention through diligent maintenance and inspection. I like the teflon hoses with integral firesleeves.

I'm still undecided about the use of cowl flaps though. If the fuel source was post-servo (i.e. broken injector line) I'd think that closing the throttle and pulling the mixture would go a long way towards extinguishing the flames, but if there was a hose rupture between the diaphragm pump and the servo there might possibly be a bit more fuel loss. In that case closing the fuel selector would be the only resolution; I'm sure that's why "Fuel Selector - OFF" is number one on the checklist. There is so much turbulent flow inside the lower cowling that I doubt anyone can be certain whether opening cowl flaps would be detrimental.

[M20F]

The only thing that is going to burn (somethings may smolder) in the cowling is 100LL and if you remove that from the equation (fuel shut off) the fire is going to go out.  The side effect is going to be the engine is going to quit which means you are landing soon.  I would be hesitant to jump in a 4000FPM dive as I may need that altitude to make a safe landing site.  

In any case the fire isn't going to kill you if anything it would be the smoke.

[Yetti]

I am listing the hammer as probable.    I took a small piece of  1/4 plexiglass The first three strikes only put three indention.  This was hand held with one edge on concrete.  

 

The fourth hit was braced on both edges.  

The fifth hit was really good swing and it broke.

 

I am still not sure on a larger more flexible piece it would work.

And I am popping the door latch and shoving something to hold it open.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

I am listing the hammer as probable.    I took a small piece of  1/4 plexiglass The first three strikes only put three indention.  This was hand held with one edge on concrete.  

 

The fourth hit was braced on both edges.  

The fifth hit was really good swing and it broke.

 

I am still not sure on a larger more flexible piece it would work.

And I am popping the door latch and shoving something to hold it open.

What kind of hammer did you use?  Was it one of those egress hammers or a standard hammer?  A standard hammer has a flat head and an egress hammer a tiny point - so the force is concentrated to a smaller area meaning a higher pressure (Pressure = force/area).

The other difference perhaps, holding one side down on the pavement is not the same as installing that one end on the pavement - I would imagine a force would cause the whole thing to bounce rather than break.  And even more so if the window is installed at all corners

I will just repeat, on an actual mounted window - 1/4'' - the force required to break it completely apart was surprisingly trivial.

Erik

[Yetti]

It was the car egress hammer that my mom gave to me with the seat belt cutter thingy like you suggested.  I used the pointy side. Did you try it from inside the plane?  I think the slight bend/tension that is in the window would help to break it, but hitting it from the inside would be less effective. Also a bigger piece would need more force.   It would also follow that I would expect the crash to help break some of the windows.  Not an engineer, just a business major that likes to break things

[FlyDave]

On the smoke hood, see this link....at least her head survived....

http://www.aeromedix.com/safe-escape-ase30-and-ase60-smoke-hood/

[N33GG]

An electric fire behind the panel, such as a bundle of wires shorting out and burning, can really fill a cockpit with more smoke than you want to deal with.  I know this for a fact.

[carusoam]

Polymer engineer says...go with the hammer, for a dozen dollars...

Our acrylic windows are susceptible to brittle fractures, regardless of their size or orientation.  The tiny point of the emergency hammer concentrates a lot of force over a very small area.

The easiest way to accidently break our windows is to drill a hole in them with an ordinary drill. The very sharp edge concentrates the force.

E-descents from the long body experience... Slow to gear operating speed Vlo, lower gear, increase to max gear operating speed Vl. The gear works really well at dissipating energy. Speed brakes can be deployed up to Vne, but why wait?

Mooney pilots are often blessed with clarity of thought during stressful situations.  I hope you all have the ability to write about your success on the day that follows...

I'm glad you guys share your thoughts about these tough decisions that may need to be made, someday.

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

Here's a happy family:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HTWUMSM?keywords=smoke%20hood&qid=1447017281&ref_=sr_1_4&sr=8-4

[aviatoreb]

I got this one because it's small when packed - a little cylinder - so small cockpit friendly to keep nearby and having it nearby after all is a prime reason to have it - and second the feedback I read about it is that it is extremely easy and fast to put on.  Twist the little screw top and it all falls out and pull the plastic bag over your head (just like your mom always thought you never to put a last bag on your head).

NOS Evac U8 Emergency Fire Smoke

http://www.hylinesafety.com/evacu8smokehood.html

[Yetti]

I would go with this if you want to be sure...

[LANCECASPER]

19 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Here's a happy family:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HTWUMSM?keywords=smoke%20hood&qid=1447017281&ref_=sr_1_4&sr=8-4

Wow gift wrapping is available