Removing built in oxygen bottle

[BTR]

My 1975 M20F has a built in oxygen system.  I've had the plane just over two years now and haven't used the oxygen system yet but wish to start.  The last inspection stamp on the bottle is 5-10, so an inspection is due.  I am hopeing  someone else has a similar setup where the bottle is mounted in the center of the tail rear of the battery compartment and can give advice on removing the bottle from the confined space.  I'm not sure if it's necessary to remove the angle hangers or to disconnect the static lines and maneuver the bottle toward the side then down and forward to remove out the battery access.  I can add pictures if necessary.

[BTR]

Update:. Got it out, inspected, being filled, then ready for reinstall.  

[cliffy]

Will your A&P be able to put it back in? Do you have the maintenance manual for him?

[Rookie]

On 11/7/2015, 3:43:28, BTR said:

My 1975 M20F has a built in oxygen system.  I've had the plane just over two years now and haven't used the oxygen system yet but wish to start.  The last inspection stamp on the bottle is 5-10, so an inspection is due.  I am hopeing  someone else has a similar setup where the bottle is mounted in the center of the tail rear of the battery compartment and can give advice on removing the bottle from the confined space.  I'm not sure if it's necessary to remove the angle hangers or to disconnect the static lines and maneuver the bottle toward the side then down and forward to remove out the battery access.  I can add pictures if necessary.

BTR how do you like your F? Is there enough room with the extended cabin area?

[Minnesota Mooney Guy]

I purchased my Mooney M20C this summer which has a built in oxygen tank similar or maybe the same as Rookie. The oxygen system was not used by the immediate past owner and the aircraft came with the tank out of the aircraft. Does an oxygen tank have a service limitation or is it just a matter of having the tank tested? Is there a reliable resource on using this Mooney Oxygen system. A buddy in the hanger next to mine gave me 1/2 dozen plastic oxygen cannula in their original plastic  I think were used by his family member for supplemental oxygen for a medical condition. Can I use these for my Mooney oxygen system? Any guidance, advice, resources would be helpful as I ahve not located anyone on my airport who seems to know much about oxygen systems and safety issues using them.

[gsxrpilot]

An M20C with a built in O2 tank? That's gotta be unusual.

[Alain B]

44 minutes ago, Minnesota Mooney Guy said:

I purchased my Mooney M20C this summer which has a built in oxygen tank similar or maybe the same as Rookie. The oxygen system was not used by the immediate past owner and the aircraft came with the tank out of the aircraft. Does an oxygen tank have a service limitation or is it just a matter of having the tank tested? Is there a reliable resource on using this Mooney Oxygen system. A buddy in the hanger next to mine gave me 1/2 dozen plastic oxygen cannula in their original plastic  I think were used by his family member for supplemental oxygen for a medical condition. Can I use these for my Mooney oxygen system? Any guidance, advice, resources would be helpful as I ahve not located anyone on my airport who seems to know much about oxygen systems and safety issues using them.

 

[Guest]

Different cylinder types have different service lives and testing intervals depending on construction material.  Once reinstalled and serviced you should purge the system by flowing oxygen from all ports prior use.  

There are several different connectors used to connect to the airframe sockets to which you can connect medical canulas.

Make sure that'll tools used in working on oxygen are oil free and naturally no open flames or heat sources.

Clarence

[Alain B]

Here is a video that might interest you . 

[gsxrpilot]

20 to 30 minutes of useful consciousness at FL180? Really?

[carusoam]

The challenge with that data...

It is really dependent on the individual, and exponentially dependent on the altitude being flown...

followed by... problem solving skills are effected by the problem itself.

followed by... Will there be an alarm alerting the pilot to the start of the problem?  Probably not...

Have a few things to go with that...

- O2 Monitor.

- Emergency back-up system.

- experience at lower levels with O2 and self monitoring.

 

Running out of O2 is bad.  Even at 0’ AGL.

PP thoughts only,

-a-

 

[AndyFromCB]

I used to be able to smoke two packs a day at 18,000 all day long. Which is really hard, because you more or less constantly have a cigarette in your mouth as they burn really slow at that altitude. Need to dig up some photos of me smoking on top of El Pico de Orizaba, which is pretty close to 19,000 IIRC. Now, that was 15 years ago, but I'm pretty positive I can still cruise all day long at FL180 without oxygen (not that I would do that, mind you, but 30 minutes of consciousness sounds a bit alarmists to me). For the record, I've always worn oxygen in non-pressurized planes over 10,000 feet because lord knows I could use all the help I can get. But I've also flown at FL220 with cannulas only and I am a strong believer they do just fine up to and including FL250 and many European glider pilots will back me up on that. But you have to remember and make an effort not to mouth breathe. Afrin is your friend. Always keep a bottle in the plane. Supposedly my 206 has a ceiling of FL270. I have no desire to test that. And no, I don't smoke anymore.

Edited December 12, 2016 by AndyFromCB

[cliffy]

My old AME was the one who got cannulas approved for aviation use. 

It all has to do with O2  and its "Partial Pressure" in the atmosphere inhaled. We humans need @3 psi PP to survive at any altitude/

 O2 makes up @ 20% of the atmosphere so sea level pressure is @14.7 psi so 20% of that "pressure" is?  2.94 psi.

At 18,000 we have about 8 psi atmospheric pressure. 20% of that pressure is? 1.6 psi PP O2! Not enough.

Cannulas give us @ 40%  O2 concentration max instead of the normal 20% so 40% of 8 psi is? 3.2 psi PP of O2!

HEY, imagine that. No wonder cannulas are limited to 18,000 ft. 

The big problem with O2 and higher altitudes is the fact that hypoxia is an insidious bastard, it sneaks up on you and you may never know it. Check out Payne Stewart and his Learjet crash) . We can suffer the effects of hypoxia in our Mooneys. It knows no limitations on type of aircraft.

Secondly AND MOST IMPORTANT, TUC tables (time of useful conciseness ) at different altitudes has no bearing on our flying. Those tables were developed by the military, with Steve Canyon pilots WITH AN EVENT MARKER TO START THE TIMING! The cabin pressure blew and the clock started. We have no such event marker to tell us when the clock started. When our O2 stops we have no BIG event to tell us. It could be just seconds for us to figure out we are going under OR we may never know it. We don't know when it stopped. What time is it really?  And, the effects of hypoxia vary wildly among a population of pilots. Everyone reacts a little different than the next to the effects of hypoxia. Only a chamber ride can tell YOU how you will react. 

Hypoxia breeds euphoria to a certain extent. I have seen subjects in the altitude chamber heavily compromised by hypoxia being told to hook up their O2 mask and they were nodding in agreement to do it until they passed out completely.  

Hypoxia can kill you and you may never know it came and visited your cockpit. 

If you want to use O2 and fly high please go and get an altitude ride or the new way using mixed gasses at sea level. it  will open your eyes. 

For those of you who can go really high (mid to high 20s) and do, how long will it take you to get down if you suffer a complete O2 failure?

After doing many, many high dives training new jet jockeys, I'll guarantee that you won't be able to do it as quick as you think you can the first time.

O2 SERVICING- Google it up, lots of good info available on how to service it properly and safely. Do it wrong and it can go BOOM!

Dedicate certain tools for O2 use ONLY and keep them clean of all oil and grease. Fill the bottle slowly to avoid heating it up.

Bottles are generally governed by the DOT and the FAA defers to them on when to hydrocheck and or replace them completely due to cycles. 

[cliffy]

Forgot to add-

How long has it been since you had your exhaust heat muff pressure checked for cracks?

Carbon monoxide combines with your blood hundreds of time easier than O2 does SO if you have an exhaust leak into your cabin heat system (remember? Its cold up there) you will get CO poisoning. 

NOW, just what do you think your fancy Pulse Oximeter will tell you about this wonderful happening?

NOTHING! As it will register just like O2 was combining in your blood- high 90s and you'll never know it!

[KLRDMD]

12 hours ago, cliffy said:

Cannulas give us @ 40%  O2 concentration max instead of the normal 20% so 40% of 8 psi is? 3.2 psi PP of O2!

That sound high. In anesthesia we estimate 20.9% oxygen at sea level plus 4% per liter per minute of oxygen flow through a nasal cannula. Further, the oxygen flow in an aviation oxygen system is roughly 1 LPM per 10,000 ft on the dial. So we're generally adding 0.5-1.5 LPM of oxygen via a cannula which would provide 23-27% oxygen in most cases. 40% really isn't possible though a nasal cannula. That would require 5 LPM which is uncomfortable and very, very drying to the nasal mucosa.

[cliffy]

Well OK All I can say is that I got it from the guy who got them approved. But it has been a lot of years ago. I can stand corrected but how do we account for the 18000 ft limit then ?

If what you say is true (and I'm not at this time doubting it and I am in no way a gas passer) then we have about 2.1 psi PP  at 18K. Seems somewhat hypoxic conditions then.  

Obviously I'm missing something.

Back to school this week!

[bonal]

On December 11, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Minnesota Mooney Guy said:

I purchased my Mooney M20C this summer which has a built in oxygen tank similar or maybe the same as Rookie. The oxygen system was not used by the immediate past owner and the aircraft came with the tank out of the aircraft. Does an oxygen tank have a service limitation or is it just a matter of having the tank tested? Is there a reliable resource on using this Mooney Oxygen system. A buddy in the hanger next to mine gave me 1/2 dozen plastic oxygen cannula in their original plastic  I think were used by his family member for supplemental oxygen for a medical condition. Can I use these for my Mooney oxygen system? Any guidance, advice, resources would be helpful as I ahve not located anyone on my airport who seems to know much about oxygen systems and safety issues using them.

Just thought I'd put in a quote as a way to notify Minnesota Mooney to say greetings and welcome to MS perhaps you might start a thread telling us about your new this summer Mooney and your flying