Fuel Leaks - Weep No More, Here I Come!

[GeorgePerry]

This is not another Bladder V/S reseal thread.  That grounds been covered, and covered, and covered...Long Body Mooney's with a leak must get a reseal as Bladders are not an option.  This post is to inform anyone who, for whatever the reason, decides they are interested in getting a reseal performed.   

 

 

 

I've been nursing a very small fuel "stain / seep" (Category 1) coming from the bottom of my left tank for the past several months.  A small stain would appear after sitting for a couple of days with full tanks and high head pressure, but it wasn't too bad.  

 

After flying down to FL recently everything warmed up and the leak stopped completely.  No stains at all, even with full tanks and several days of sitting idle.  I was happy, its always nice when things fix themselves - but I know that never lasts.  After bringing the plane back north I topped both tanks.  After a couple of nights with temps in the single digits the plane got a good cold soak and my very tiny "seep" got worse.  With full tanks, the leak from the left tank now falls somewhere between category 2 and 3  

 

I de-fueled the the left tank in 5 gallon increments until it stopped.  Turns out keeping the fuel below 20 gallons in the left wing stops the fuel from coming out of the drain hole, so the area of bad sealant is above that level.   Problem solved - sort of

 

I knew it was time to address the problem.  During my research, I found that options to fix leaks on latter aircraft are very limited as O&N bladders are not available for long body Mooneys.  ARRRRGGG!  So my only option is a strip and reseal.   So that's what I decided to do.  Fingers crossed.

 

Currently there are a few well known and several less well known shops that perform fuel tank reseals.  A quick google search brings up the the list.  After doing a fair amount of homework, research and talking with Paul at Weep No More several times, I decided to take my Eagle up to Wilmar MN to have him perform a complete strip and reseal.  Even though my leak is isolated to just the left wing, there's no guarantee how long the right will last before it starts to turn blue so I'm having both L & R tanks done.  I learned from Paul (and others) that 1999 and 2000 M20's have a REALLY bad track record for developing leaks.  Based on Mooney's propensity to leak, That's saying something!  Perhaps the crew sealing the tanks in K-ville during those years weren't as thorough or careful as they should have been. 

 

 

I'm asked Paul to take photo's of the process for my records and so I can post about the experience on MS.  

 

16 April Update

 

M20S delivered to Paul at Weep No More.  Long trip with a 0545 departure.  5.5 hours later I landed at Willmar.   Paul was there to meet me and we were able to chat about the strip/reseal process.  He gave me a tour of the facility and showed me several Mooney's that he had there undergoing reseals.  They were all in various stages of the process and it was really cool to see first hand!  Paul also agree to take lots of photos to document the process.  He said a full book of pictures was a normal part of the process so owners have documentation of the various stages.  I thought it's pretty nice of him to provide this to all of his customers.  We also discussed my posting about this on the forums.  He was really supportive of the idea.  Delivery Pics Enclosed

 

The old sealant was yellowish / tan 

 

29 April Update

 

Paul started the stripping process and has the tanks "mostly" cleaned out.  The method he uses really eats away the old sealant but leaves the metal in pristine condition.  it's pretty "goopy" when it dissolves.       

 

Some touch up is required to get the old sealant out of the corners and prep the aluminum for the new sealant but it's coming right along!  

 

5 May Update

 

Things are almost done.  Tanks nearly finished with reseal.  Some final touch ups and then full of fuel for leak checks.  Pics attached  

 

21 May Update

 

After a week of juggling schedules I was able to make it back up to Willmar MN to pick up my plane from Paul at WeepNoMore.  Wow Was I impressed.  The work was top notch, fueled to the brim and not a drip anywhere.  That was expected.  What I didn't expect was the repaint of my nonskid over the passenger side wing.  It looks great.  Paul was there to meet me and with a brief overview of all the things he did we exchanged some paper.  I gave him a check and he gave me a log book sticker  

 

After reading a post from a fellow Mooniac who had a reseal performed which resulted in some "crud" getting into on of the fuel lines, I did an extensive ground run and put at 2-3 gallons of fuel through the lines (both tanks) before taking off.  It took about 20 minutes running on the ground at 1500 RPM full rich, but it was worth the piece of mind.  The flight back to the east coast went off without a hitch and 4 hours later I touched down and tucked the plane away in the hanger.  

 

The only problem that cropped up was the right side visual sight gauge was stuck and showed full with less than 25 gallons in the tank.   I sent Paul a text to let him know I'd made it home safely and mentioned the problem.  Simple solution.  Bang on the inboard portion of the panel and the float will drop.  Sure enough, I gave it a nice solid "thunk" with the heal of my hand and that did the trick.  It's worked perfectly ever since.  

 

 

27 May Update

 

I've flown the plane about 15 hours since picking it up from WeepNoMore with several fill ups.  Both hot and cold weather and today I took the plane up to 17K (-15 degC).  No issues with leaks, the sight gauges work, and the smell of 100LL is no longer present after a fill up.

 

I would recommend Paul and WeepNoMore to any Mooney driver who chooses to perform a reseal.  He was great to work with, I am 100% satisfied, and feel like there's a lot of value in the service he provides and the warranty he has to back his service.   

[Piloto]

Leak stains are more likely to show during the winter than summer due to the colder temperatures. A leak into the inside of the wing will evaporate before reaching the outside thus not visible in the summer. You may not need a whole reseal but just a spot patch.

José

[Fritz Kaiser]

Hi George,

you are telling my story!

I guess the '95 O1's are as bad as the '99 + 2000 long bodies- regarding the tank sealer

But I'm not sure if it is necessary to reseal a good tank ( my RH wing tank is also not leaking )

It is approx. €6000 more here in europe!

I will do the reseal in the next winter ..... observing the RH tank and decide what should happen!

Can you take a pic from the bottom of the wing after toping it?

Thanks.

I guess: a lot of things can be take good with some money.

regards

Fritz

[Johnnybgoode]

Hey guys,

They do sell houses down where it's warm all the time!

But if you must reside in the arctic, best to take care of this problem correctly. Looks like George has it all planned out. Good luck

[aviatoreb]

Knock on wood - but not all years at Mooney were leaky prone.  I have been reading all these reseal threads with great interest since I am well aware that my time must be just around the corner.  My 1981 K has never been resealed and is not leaking - yet.  Knock on wood again.  However, I have been thinking of repaint at some point but I wouldn't dare repaint since I know Murphy's law says that if I were to repaint that a big leak would start immediately following to spoil the paint.

 

So George I am watching your story with great interest.  Good luck!  I bet they do a super job.

[AZ231]

George, Best of luck with your reseal. My right tank is leaking in my M20K and I recently made an appointment with Paul in MN as well. I will be flying up to leave my '80 231 at Weep No More in late August. My research has also led me here and I look forward to the days of finally being able to fill up both tanks to the max and parking her in the hangar when needed. I'll try and post some pictures once my plane is completed as well.

[GeorgePerry]

George, Best of luck with your reseal. My right tank is leaking in my M20K and I recently made an appointment with Paul in MN as well. I will be flying up to leave my '80 231 at Weep No More in late August. My research has also led me here and I look forward to the days of finally being able to fill up both tanks to the max and parking her in the hangar when needed. I'll try and post some pictures once my plane is completed as well.

 

I'll be sure to post a full report, but based on what I've read and the folks I've talked w/ about Paul and WNM I'm pretty confident it'll go well.  Best of luck when you trek out there in August.  You should try to match up your trip with the Minneapolis AOPA fly-in.  Its on 22 August

 

http://www.aopa.org/Community-and-Events/AOPA-Fly-In/2015/About/Minneapolis-Fly-In

[GeorgePerry]

16 April update posted w/in the first posting

[rbridges]

I've only met paul a few times at the mooney summits in PC, but he seems like a great guy. I've been on this board for several years and never seen any issues with his work.

[marks]

I had my local IA patch my '89 J model a few times over six years and then had Paul at Weep No More do the whole job in 2011 and everything has been perfect since without a whiff of fuel.  Before my J I flew an '83 Beech Sierra from 1989 until late 2004 and never gave fuel leaks a thought.  The Sierra was six years older without bladders and I flew it up to over 3,000 hours.  For more than ten years I kept the Beech tied down outside because I commutued with it nearly every day.  So why can't Mooney figure out how to fix such a chronic problem over all those decades?  Does anyone know if it's just the sealant?  I thought I got a pretty good deal when I bought the Mooney, but I wasn't planning on the extra eight grande.

[Mooney_Allegro]

My 1998 M20J started leaking this winter, and I'm scheduled with Paul this summer.  I've already patched the RH tank once, spending over $1000, and a week later, I still had a strong smell of fuel in the cabin when the plane was topped off.  I took it back to the people who did the patch, and they advised me it's suddenly leaking at a different location and will cost another $1000.  Instead of tracking down leaks one by one, I've decided to get both tanks resealed and be done with it.  Paul will presenting at the Mooney MAPA convention in Kerrville, TX next month, so I'll look forward to meeting him there.  I'll post my experience with Weep No More after the reseal.  

[rbridges]

My 1998 M20J started leaking this winter, and I'm scheduled with Paul this summer.  I've already patched the RH tank once, spending over $1000, and a week later, I still had a strong smell of fuel in the cabin when the plane was topped off.  I took it back to the people who did the patch, and they advised me it's suddenly leaking at a different location and will cost another $1000.  Instead of tracking down leaks one by one, I've decided to get both tanks resealed and be done with it.  Paul will presenting at the Mooney MAPA convention in Kerrville, TX next month, so I'll look forward to meeting him there.  I'll post my experience with Weep No More after the reseal.  

 

Joey Cole talked me into doing bladders.  I'm not pushing bladders, but Joey's point was that chasing leaks one at a time with patches could potentially thousand dollar me to death.  He made it very clear there were no guarantees.  I just wanted a "permanent" fix.

[GeorgePerry]

Joey Cole talked me into doing bladders.  I'm not pushing bladders, but Joey's point was that chasing leaks one at a time with patches could potentially thousand dollar me to death.  He made it very clear there were no guarantees.  I just wanted a "permanent" fix.

 

This is not another Bladder V/S reseal thread.  That grounds been covered, and covered, and covered...  

 

This thread is about long body mooney's that don't have a bladder option.  A reseal is the only option.  Paul at weepnomore is the recognized expert and with a 7 year no questions asked warranty and hundreds of happy customers, I'm confident in his abilities.

[DrBill]

I am really pleased with my bladder purchase.  I know they don't exist for all models but it's perfect for me. One week, and no more leaks forever.  

Bill

[Mooney_Allegro]

I thought about bladders for a short time, however I don't like the fact that I'll lose some useful load. What is it, about 30 pounds for the bladders? I do Coast Guard Auxiliary flying, and most of the guys I fly with are over 220 pounds, so I can't afford to lose anymore useful load, or maybe they should be put on a diet.  

[wishboneash]

Does anyone know the rate of fuel loss for a stain, seep, heavy seep etc. ? Assuming a full tank that has the highest pressure. Thanks.

[rbridges]

This is not another Bladder V/S reseal thread.  That grounds been covered, and covered, and covered...  

 

This thread is about long body mooney's that don't have a bladder option.  A reseal is the only option.  Paul at weepnomore is the recognized expert and with a 7 year no questions asked warranty and hundreds of happy customers, I'm confident in his abilities.

 

The bladders weren't the point of my post. It was about doing patches.  I think they have their place, but with the cost of a patch being ~15% of the cost of a strip/reseal in my case, I felt better doing something else.  If I were having a strip/reseal, I would definitely send my plane to Paul.  

[fantom]

Joey Cole talked me into doing bladders. I'm not pushing bladders, but Joey's point was that chasing leaks one at a time with patches could potentially thousand dollar me to death. He made it very clear there were no guarantees. I just wanted a "permanent" fix.

Less work, same profit.

Reports I've heard are that some shops who aren't good at patching sometimes overcharge for it, hoping to install bladders instead.

Caveat Emptor.

[ArtVandelay]

A month or so there was someone who posted they got a complete reseal for less than $2000, for that much I would with a reseal.

[GeorgePerry]

29 April update posted w/in the first posting

[carusoam]

George is always thinking of better ways to do things.

Nice update!

That guy in the photos must be Paul Beck...

The one guy in the Mooney world, I'm afraid to have to meet.

Best regards,

-a-

[GeorgePerry]

5 May update posted w/in the first posting

[RobertE]

Since you're nearly done and about to leave Weep No More let me give you a "stupid pilot trick" I pioneered after departing from Paul's place.

 

I departed in poor weather, flew about an hour over a thick layer and then switched tanks.  When I did so the engine began to stumble badly so I immediately switched back to the original tank while worrying about what had gone wrong.  Naturally, I assumed the worst, which was that some free floating sealant had clogged the outlet inside the tank (it's a tube with a small screen on it), meaning I would have to return to Weep No More and have Paul fix it.  Well, fortunately I continued on course until I had about an hour of fuel left in the original tank, landed and checked things out on the ground.  I couldn't duplicate the problem there, which seemed mysterious.  I took off again but, wondering if some of that sealant might ultimately find its way to the fuel spider and cause a real problem, was uneasy for the next several hours.

 

So what was it?  My guess is that, naturally, Paul empties the tanks to do the work, including the fuel lines.  Almost certainly the engine stumble was due to the air bubble working its way through the lines on the second tank.  It probably would have cleared up in seconds but I was so quick in switching tanks that I didn't give it a chance.  I sure didn't want to make an IFR approach with a dead engine.  And the whole time I was cursing Paul for what I figured was his sloppiness.  The lesson?  Be sure to run both tanks on the ground before take off. 

 

 

[Deb]

Even though we always sump our tanks, we taxi on one tank and then switch tanks for our run-up and takeoff.

[mpg]

Even though we always sump our tanks, we taxi on one tank and then switch tanks for our run-up and takeoff.

Dont do That!!

Dont change tanks Just before take off,,,   or just before landing!!

 

You should decide early on, which tank you prefer for take off or landing well before you do Either!

Then run on that tank for a Good Long time before it matters!