Finally found a Mooney, next steps?

[Jakl]

They want to reseal tanks because their age!?!

First of all, no way would I let them do that.

Second, if I was seller, I would laugh at you if you wanted a price reduction because nothing was wrong but there could be a problem in the future.

 

Ok so the MSC in Venice, FL is just trying to make money off me? After I sat back and thought about it, thats sorta how it felt TBH. 

 

I took it as a pun...red wine...whiney being less red than red?

 

That makes more sense

[carusoam]

Remember...

In the history of sealed tanks the material has changed. A 90’s tank has different chemistry than a 60’s tank.

A plane that is kept indoors is less risk than one that has been outside.

The benefit of using an MSC that you know... They don't typically need to make stuff up to take your money. They are good at pointing out stuff that is worn. The offer everything you need to make a decision that is right for you.

Yes, buying old planes from someone you don't know is a challenge.

Buying a new plane with a warranty is really easy, but still comes with a huge price and break-in challenges.

Don't expect it to be easy. While working with your MSC expect to have extended conversations. I pay for their knowledge by bringing them my business.

Hire an expert, tell him your objective, write down what he tells you. The risk you take is on everything that can wear...

Tanks and paint are no different.

Old planes fly as fast as new ones. Their maintenance is the same. Their operating costs are the same.

People that own planes for a period of time don't get here accidentally.

The best you can do is be involved with your PPI, the best that you can.

The best resource is an MSC, unless you know someone better.

Don't use the same MSC that has done the previous year's annuals.

Take no short cuts, and expect there to be hidden mistakes to be found once you own it.

You are in charge of your destiny, don't hand to somebody else, then ask for a discount...

Ya' know?

This is a list of best practices, not guarantees.

Best regards,

-a-

[Jakl]

Remember...

In the history of sealed tanks the material has changed. A 90’s tank has different chemistry than a 60’s tank.

A plane that is kept indoors is less risk than one that has been outside.

The benefit of using an MSC that you know... They don't typically need to make stuff up to take your money. They are good at pointing out stuff that is worn. The offer everything you need to make a decision that is right for you.

Yes, buying old planes from someone you don't know is a challenge.

Buying a new plane with a warranty is really easy, but still comes with a huge price and break-in challenges.

Don't expect it to be easy. While working with your MSC expect to have extended conversations. I pay for their knowledge by bringing them my business.

Hire an expert, tell him your objective, write down what he tells you. The risk you take is on everything that can wear...

Tanks and paint are no different.

Old planes fly as fast as new ones. Their maintenance is the same. Their operating costs are the same.

People that own planes for a period of time don't get here accidentally.

The best you can do is be involved with your PPI, the best that you can.

The best resource is an MSC, unless you know someone better.

Don't use the same MSC that has done the previous year's annuals.

Take no short cuts, and expect there to be hidden mistakes to be found once you own it.

You are in charge of your destiny, don't hand to somebody else, then ask for a discount...

Ya' know?

This is a list of best practices, not guarantees.

Best regards,

-a-

 

I understand an MSC is my best resource, but when in one breath they claim to be just as good as Willmar Air Services at sealing tanks, and in the next breath they tell me to definitely plan to have them stripped and sealed at the pre buy, well....

[carusoam]

My friend,

I am not sure what you are saying.

But, I spend my time trying to help people out by sharing what I know.

What is your objective...?

Did you need a leak stopped?

Or did you want a turn-key refurbished plane?

The questions don't end until you tell them what you want and stay focused on that. They are human beings and can go off on tangents...

My PPI had some tank leaks sealed. I didn't expect to see leaks on a modernish Mooney. The TX MSC doing the PPI sealed some rivets at the top. Took a day to complete. Seller paid to have it done. I approved the work. Years later, still fixed.

The point of a PPI is to build two lists...

One list of all things airworthiness related. (Negotiate with the seller on these)

The other list of all things that would be nice to be refreshed. (Get a quote from the MSC on these, you know how negotiation works...)

Yes, I would like Paul at weep no more to do a reseal on my plane. But who is going to pay for that?

Your first post did not indicate the tanks leak. Your MSC advised you that the tanks are 30 years old. If they are not leaking, they are not an AW problem that can be fixed. These are the fun parts of buying / negotiating on an old machine.

It is the "norm" that the seller pays for AW issues. Everything else is up to you. I went with everything must be in working order. But I paid a "full price" to get that. Every radio, every light bulb, every battery, display and seatbelt...

Every year you will see things that make you say hmmmm. Specially at annual time...

If you have leak free 30 year old tanks, what are you expecting? How long should they last? Do you have time to fix a surprise leak?

Some people use their planes for business. They don't have time for leaks. It is expensive to maintain this level of reliability.

MSCs support both ends of the spectrum. Are you a weekend flier on a budget (like me)? Or are you using it several times a week for work?

Most importantly...if you buy the plane and the tanks begin to leak in the next year, can you afford a reseal? Can you afford an OH? Can you afford a cylinder assembly?

These were the questions I had for a 35 year old plane. I would have to sell for the reseal and OH.

Yes, I get where you are at. You are doing it with a nicer machine than the C I got...

My C got sold with leaky tanks after a decade. It needed an OH, and sold at a wholesale price. Success!

Best regards,

-a-

[triple8s]

My previous plane had a leaking tank the sealant was applied in 1988 when the long range tanks were installed and it was seeping a bit when I traded in 2012. I thought about getting them resealed but the leak was in the left aux, the aux tanks drain into the mains so the only time I had a slight leak was when the aux tanks were full. I rarely needed to carry 88 gallons so it was not really a problem. I did always put a few gallon in them to keep the sealant wet. I would fill the mains to a couple gallons less than full then pump a couple gallons into the aux tanks and let it run over into the mains thereby keeping the aux wet. The biggest inconvieniance was the blue streak on the gear doors. I guess a really bad leak in a main tank could be a real problem but as my situation was it wasn't that big of a deal. Corrosion and undocumented damage/repairs would be much more of a concern in my opinion. Engines, interiors, paint, propellers are all consumables, they get used up and get replaced.

[fantom]

I hope you've done more research on the plane than you did on the shop doing the PPI.

[aaronk25]

I understand an MSC is my best resource, but when in one breath they claim to be just as good as Willmar Air Services at sealing tanks, and in the next breath they tell me to definitely plan to have them stripped and sealed at the pre buy, well....

Just a note: Willmar air services does not seal tanks. Paul a world class tank sealing expert does seal tanks and he is located at Willmar airport also and his website is http://www.weepnomorellc.com

As far as Willmar Airservice goes, it changed hands about 5 years ago, and my friend your life will be much happier if you don't do business with them.

Paul at weep no more is a great guy and good resource. He even sponsors the Florida mooney get together coming this month.

2 completely different companies with drastically different approaches to customer service about 1/4 mile apart.

[carl]

Here is my question; Where can I get some time in a Mooney.Like the Jakl, I have an offer on a 66 M20 E .

I need some time in a Mooney . i have flown about a hour in a 64 M20C a long time ago. I have about 157 hours , owned  Grumman Traveler AA5 ,

 

Any ideas ?

 

Carl

[Marauder]

Here is my question; Where can I get some time in a Mooney.Like the Jakl, I have an offer on a 66 M20 E .

I need some time in a Mooney . i have flown about a hour in a 64 M20C a long time ago. I have about 157 hours , owned Grumman Traveler AA5 ,

Any ideas ?

Carl

Where are you located? There are a number of Mooney experienced CFIs that frequent the site.

[mike_elliott]

The MSc in Venice likes to do tank reseals, and might have some motivation to suggest you negotiate this to be done

[Hondo]

Jaki,

 

Don't know whether this will help, but this is how I bought mine.

 

Hadn't flown in a long time.  After checking Trade-A-Plane for about six months, I finally found one.  Two guys in Maryland owned it.

They seemed like good guys.  After getting a MSC recommendation from Dugosh, I offered to pay for the prebuy if one would fly it to the MSC in Ohio.  He flew it to the MSC in low IFR.  When I talked to the MSC, he told me he would like to buy it if I didn't.  Sounded good.

 

Next, I had to pay for it and get it home to Texas. Frank offered to fly me home and I bought him a return ticket.  That was great. I got to watch and quiz him for about nine hours.  I paid cash and we went over the paperwork together.  In retrospect, I think I was lucky that they were indeed good guys.  If I had to do it again, I would probably use an escrow service.

 

Good luck. 

[carl]

I had a pre buy done with an A&P who does Mooneys. 

I am using an escrow agent and lawyer, ( this adds on extra time t get the deal done ) but I am not worried 

 

I live in central Pa ,near Altoona Pa.

I am looking to fly with someone in their Mooney , maybe an E . I will pay for costs.I need some time in a Mooney . i have flown about a hour in a 64 M20C a long time ago. I have about 157 hours , I  owned  a Grumman Traveler AA5 , I have a high performance sign off .    im VFR not instrument rated  

 

carl