RIP HSI...now what?

[Amelia]

As predicted here a while back, the 231's wonky HSI is increasingly unreliable. Sometimes it works fine, and sometimes it takes a half hour to get with the program. The time draws near to make a decision. Overhaul? Fancy and crazy-expensive glass? If so, which one? Several friends sing the praises of the G500, but my old joke about exciting women being expensive has worn awfully thin.

[Steve Dawson]

What's the cost to repair Amelia? I had a price from Sarasota for a Aspen Pro 1000 of $12,500 with installation since I felt that the G500 was overkill for my plane.

[Marauder]

I think a lot of your decision should be based on how long are you going to keep the plane and the kind of flying you are doing. You can spend a lot of energy and time debating the merits of going in any direction.

For me it was simple. I did not own an HSI, wanted one and glass made for a better decision -- for me. If you are entertaining that path, I would connect up locally with people who own the two major players and see if you like either one.

I am in the northern Delaware area. More than welcome to fly with mine.

[BorealOne]

I think you'd find the Aspen is a good investment from a cost/benefit perspective over an HSI overhaul.

[OR75]

Two questions:

What autopilot do you have ?

Do you have a GPS with moving map ?

[Amelia]

I have a Garmin 530W and a KAP150. I expect to fly this airplane until I can't pass a class III medical. Which means maybe 10 more years if I'm lucky. And still lucid. Trouble is, I am a little hesitant to put a $5 collar on this $2 dog. And a little concerned about the added complexity and head-down time. But those magic boxes are awfully pretty.

[Amelia]

You who have Aspens, do you think the displays would be easy for an old-ish lady to read with trifocal plus lenses? Are they appropriately dimmable at night?

[fantom]

Pull the HSI out and send it to a shop that specializes in fixing them. Save yourself about $11K. The Aspen while nice, is not without it's own set of peccadilloes, as documented in other threads.

In my experience, it makes much more economical sense for those without a HSI in the first place, and those are most of the forks endorsing the Aspen.

Of course if you have $12.5 burning a hole in your pocketbook and very good near eye sight, not to mention the time and desire to master a new gizmo then go for it.

Good luck!

[Danb]

I wear variable lens and have no trouble with seeing the instrumentation, as far as the learning curve it is much easier than when I started I was among the first with glass. The learning aids both electronic,books and checklists are valuable learning tools. If you plan on keeping your bird I see no reason for not making an upgrade into the latest century...

[Marauder]

You who have Aspens, do you think the displays would be easy for an old-ish lady to read with trifocal plus lenses? Are they appropriately dimmable at night?

Amelia -- whilst not blessed with tri-focals, I do wear reading glasses and have no issues seeing and reading the outputs of the Aspens. In fact, I have more problems seeing the Kollsman window on my stand-by mechanical altimeter than I do the Aspen's which is presented as a numerical output.

The glass stuff is backlited so it is actually easier for me to read than the analog stuff which relies upon enough ambient or panel lighting to make it readable. The Aspens have a pretty dynamic lighting range that can be automatically or manually set.

Which reminds me of a funny story. A good friend of mine is a CFII and occasionally he borrows my Mooney for his currency. He went out one evening not long after the Aspens were installed. I still hadn't figured out most of the features, let alone tell him about them. He came back after dark and I asked how it went. He said that for the first time in his life he was able to get a tan after dark thanks to the warm glow of the Aspens.

From an investment perspective, putting ANYTHING in an airplane is not going to get you the return of investment. Heck, owning and flying isn't a good investment either. But being able to do something I enjoy isn't a monetary only decision.

And after using analogs for 22 years in my plane, I went glass and haven't looked back. Was it a good investment. Who cares? I'm having a blast flying behind it.

[Amelia]

Just looked at MidContinent's website. ~$1300 to repair the bloomin thing. 90-day warranty. Sigh....

[fantom]

TRIUMPH INSTRUMENTS AND AVIONICS has shops all over. The one down here is at KFXE and is first rate. Usually about $1K and I've yet to hear of a unit going back. It should last you another ten years without further problems.

Also consider what an antique today's Aspen will be in ten years given the constant advances in avionics.

Just trying to counter the halo reports, and offer a contrarian perspective

If you send the HSI down here, I'll be glad to shepherd it through, so you have it back for PCB. It is very easy to pull out and needs a gentle hand to pack up.

[PTK]

Amelia, do yourself a favor and call the King specialist Bob Bramble, Aerolab Aviation Services, (913) 680-4169.

He will fix it and save you a bundle.

I liken the King HSI to a classic Swiss timepiece and an Aspen to a digital timex. The former will never go out of style whereas the latter is disposable.

[DonMuncy]

Mimi,

I like my HSI and think that from a practical standpoint, there is little to be gained by going to glass. However, I strongly suspect that if you went with an Aspen, after a few hours you would be very happy with it.

You must also recognize that prospective buyers are almost certainly going to favor glass over steam gauges.

So it looks to me like the decision is strictly economic; cost of HSI repair vs cost of Aspen; vs increase in value at sale time; vs how well you can afford it now, vs value later.

No real answer; just factors to consider.

[Bill Dunn]

We can install aspens for 12k all day long but in the end it's your preference. If you like the HSI get it fixed and if you want glass get it. If you want to play with an aspen we have a demo unit in to office powered up in demo mode.

[Piloto]

Try Century Instruments. They have their prices published.

 

For a BK HSI and gyro overhaul is about $2,000. I had my ADI overhauled with them for $600. Good service, one week turn around.

 

www.centuryinstruments.net

 

José

[Aerodon]

Amelia,

 

You didn't describe what is wrong with your HSI?  If you are having needle/flag problems, its the HSI.  Heading problems could be the KG102A gyro.  Or something else.  I have some components removed from a late model Baron.  The latest -07 HSI and high serial number gyro.   For under $2k you could switch out your 30 year old for a 10 year old system, with no downtime.  I'll take your old units in trade, send them off to Bob Bramble to see what we can do with them.

 

Another nice upgrade for a Mooney is to put a Sandel SN3308.  I know they are getting older, but it's a real nice way to have an HSI, RMI (add and gps pointers), WX500 stormscope etc.  Not the latest glass, but still a very affordable step. 

 

Feel free to email me at supercub180@gmail.com

 

Don

[chrisk]

I encourage you to look at the big picture.  Do you want GPSS and a backup electric AI?  If so, give the Aspen a close look.  On the other hand, an overhaul is probably the most cost effective.

 

If your happy with your avionics, except for the HSI not working, I would stick with the BK HSI.  The knobs on the BK are nicer, in the sense that they move and the heading bug moves.  With the Aspen, or other digital instruments, twisting the knob quickly usually means the heading bug does not change.

[John Pleisse]

Cheapest fix? $3,800 to rebuild the HSI (and likely FD if you have one). However, a close second for $9,000? Apen PFD. The single most cost efficient, upgrade there is to any aircraft. You can grow and expand, scalable...you can wait for newer technology to become available. If the FAA deregulates Part 23 and costs plummet, you didn't spend too much. You'll vastly improve your flying immediately. If you spent $38k on a G500 now and the FAA relaxes avionics regulation in the coming years, you'd be hard pressed to have realized your investment.

 

One other thing about PFD's Garmin or Aspen. Your pitch control will vastly change and you will have stunningly accurate detail. A King FD or even an RC Allen basic attitude indicator will provide a scale of pitch detail that is only 3/4 of an inch from +15 to -10, basically a bar or two up or down. On these new PFD's, the picth control is vast, encompassing nearly 3X the read out top to bottom. You'll redo your PAC chart.

[Marauder]

Cheapest fix? $3,800 to rebuild the HSI (and likely FD if you have one). However, a close second for $9,000? Apen PFD. The single most cost efficient, upgrade there is to any aircraft. You can grow and expand, scalable...you can wait for newer technology to become available. If the FAA deregulates and costs plummet, you didn't spend too much. You'll vastly improve your flying immediately. If you spent $38k on a G500 now and the FAA relaxes avionics regulation in the coming years, you'd be hard pressed to have realized your investment.

One other thing about PFD's Garmin or Aspen. Your pitch control will vastly change and you will have stunningly accurate detail. A King FD or even an RC Allen basic attitude indicator will provide a scale of pitch detail that is only an inch from +15 to -10, basically a bar or two up or down. On these new PFD's, the picth control is vast, encompassing nearly 3X the read out top to bottom. You'll redo your PAC chart.

It's amazing how those Timex watches work isn't it?

[fantom]

Amelia,

You didn't describe what is wrong with your HSI? If you are having needle/flag problems, its the HSI. Heading problems could be the KG102A gyro.....Don

That is correct, and Don makes good points. It's most likely only one of the two components.

$3,500 to rebuild an HSI is almost as unrealistic as quoting $9,000 for an Aspen.

Bob Bramble is well regarded down here.

[Danb]

A interesting topic it seems those who do not have glass have a lot of negative reasons while those who do would never want to go back..I'm all for going back to compass and adf...

[NotarPilot]

I'll chime in and throw my two cents in the ring since I have some experience with both...

We recently "upgraded" to a Garmin G500 in one of our helicopters at work. Although it is nice and fancy I'm not a huge fan and don't think its worth the investment. I fly IFR on steam gauges in my 201 and actually prefer them over the G500. I find the steam gauges more intuitive and instantly recognizable for airspeed and VSI most specifically. The G500 has a "tape" indicator for airspeed and VSI with a single number to indicate hundreds of feet per minute for climb and decent. For some reason I just can't get used to this style of indicator. How do you know if you're climbing at 40 or 50 feet per minute? Important information while flying IFR if you ask me. If anything, my experience with the G500 has convinced me that it's not something I would ever buy.

If I were to go with anything glass I'd get the Aspen. Reason being is it's small and I could still keep my other primary flight instruments such as altimeter, VSI, airspeed indicator and TC. The Aspen would make for a great and reliable artificial horizon and HSI and I could ignore the other indicators, I find undesirable, and still rely on my steam gauges in their usual places.

But then again, that's just me.

[Danb]

I would think the more you get used to the system your attitude may change I assume but do not know if the 500 has trend lines as the 1000 does and it is quite easy to see the smallest rate of change as far as the tapes that's experience most heavy metal uses tapes and trend wise they seem much easier to discern I though have been behind a 1000 for 9 yrs. so not a fair criticism by me.

[fantom]

A interesting topic it seems those who do not have glass have a lot of negative reasons while those who do would never want to go back..I'm all for going back to compass and adf...

Reasons/logic for not doing something are not 'negative', anymore that self congratulatory, halo reporting for something you've done, costing tens of thousands of dollars, is positive.

It's highly unlikely people would admit they made a very expensive mistake, even to themselves, and even less likely they would ripe out an Aspen or G500 to return to more traditional instrumentation.

.....or not. Do your own homework and make your own choices.