AndyFromCB Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Just remember France...."You've Got a Friend".... USA flexing its soft power side. I smell an SNL intro... What would you recommend we do? Bomb Paris' ghettos? I asked and all you ever propose is symbolism and buzzwords. I get it, you're a sentimental fellow. Best we can do here is let CIA, NSA and FBI do there jobs infiltrating various organizations and then depending on whether it's a friend's or foe's territory, either arrest or make a small crater. We all know that 2 trillion flushed down the toilet accomplished nothing. On a lighter note, I just saw that the F35 might have a working canon in 2019 and at this point has reached 7.5 flight hours between critical failures. All at measly 49billion a year since its inception. But 6 billion a year to help kids with college setup in such a way where the states actually have a reason to keep costs down since they'll have to kick in 20% themselves as opposed to the student loan racket, and the world is ending according you Boehner. 49 billion a year for a paper weight... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Two means of financial slavery Student loan racket... A student can borrow more than he will be able to pay back in a lifetime... Credit card racket... Anybody can borrow more than they can pay back in a lifetime.... These are also freedoms of choice... You can be the slave owner by owning shares in companies like Visa and MasterCard... Best regards, -a- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 1. America is capitalist and greedy - yet half of the population is subsidized. 2. Half of the population is subsidized - yet they think they are victims. 3. They think they are victims - yet their representatives run the government. 4. Their representatives run the government - yet the poor keep getting poorer. 5. The poor keep getting poorer - yet they have things that poor people in other countries only dream about. 6. They have things that poor people in other countries only dream about - yet they want America to be more like those other countries. Some of those propositions may have once been true, but it doesn't describe the United States in 2015. Fact is that today in the United States, the wealthiest 160,000 families own as much wealth as the poorest 145 million families, and that wealth is about 10 times as unequal as income. 75% of all wealth is owned by the richest 10% of the people. There used to be a middle class, but that's disappearing at an alarming rate. There's lots of reasons to conclude that this is not a good thing, but let's take a page from Fortune magazine (that bastion of the left): "why should we care that wealth inequality is so much greater than even the historic levels of income inequality? While inequality is a natural result of competitive, capitalist economies, there’s plenty of evidence that shows that extreme levels of inequality is bad for business...there's evidence that rising inequality and many other intractable social problems are related. Not only is rising inequality bad for business, it’s bad for society, too." http://fortune.com/2014/10/31/inequality-wealth-income-us/ Or those radicals at Standard and Poor, who state "At extreme levels, income inequality can harm sustained economic growth over long periods. The U.S. is approaching that threshold...We see a narrowing of the current income gap as beneficial to the economy. In addition to strengthening the quality of economic expansions, bringing levels of income inequality under control would improve U.S. economic resilience in the face of potential risks to growth. From a consumer perspective, benefits would extend across income levels, boosting purchasing power among those in the middle and lower levels of the pay scale--while the richest Americans would enjoy increased spending power in a sustained economic expansion. http://bit.ly/1BnkUOd As to the poor in the US having stuff that the rest of the world dreams about, again, that was perhaps once true, but the current reality is that the US is falling on the main indices that measure quality of life: http://www.businessinsider.com/top-countries-on-oecd-better-life-index-2013-5?op=1 Little Timmy might live a happier life if the United States adopted policies that are more like those in Australia, Sweden or Canada... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Let's start with the statistics. Here's a good summary: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?abt=0002&abg=1 Your economy is performing at least as well as most other countries with advanced economies. But most of that vast wealth is being concentrated among the very very rich, who pay far less in taxes in the US than they do in Canada, Australia, NZ or Western Europe. In other developed countries, there are progressive taxation systems which reinvest portions of that wealth in public education, public health and other public goods which contribute to the quality of life for all citizens. Those in the middle income brackets pay less than those in the higher brackets, which means that their take-home pay gets spent on stuff (like airplanes) which keeps the economy growing. Those in the lower income brackets have a fair shot at 'upward mobility' because of excellent public education and health care systems. It's not complicated. The rest of the developed world has pretty much figured this out. But US politics (as evidenced by this thread) have become so polarized that evidence-based policy development has pretty much gone out the window, and has instead been replaced by ideology. It's tragic. The world is a better place with a strong America. Please keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I and my children are products of the public school system. The fact is the US Public Education system has failed even though they throw money (per student) in the highest percentage of the world. Not quite sure what you trying to tell us here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Scott, Reality does not support your position. Income tax rates on "job creators" have been the lowest since WWII. There is no redistribution, there is no socialism, since about 1980s your side has been winning, and look at the results. Conservatives appear to despise the results of conservative policies but somehow seem to be unable pinpoint the blame. You only have yourself to blame for the current size of the national debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 O.K. so we are going to rob, excuse me, redistribute accumulated wealth from the rich to the poor... Taxes are the answer? (of course they are) (Socialism is always the answer to cure Capitalistic ills) What countries spend MORE per student (in public schools) than the U.S.? Is it the same as your chart of the "best" countries? No. You have it wrong. Didn't you get the memo up there in Canada? The U.S. is not exceptional, we are JUST ANOTHER PLAYER in the world. Just ask our elected leader. Thank you for your concern about our well being though. All OCED countries spend within about 1% of each other in terms of GDP. Somewhere around 6% to 7%. I really have no idea what it is that you want to accomplish. On one hand you want America to be EXCEPTIONAL, on the other hand you want to accomplish that with a population that is functionally illiterate. Something has to give. Only things we've become exceptional in the last 35 years are not things to be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Scott, Reality does not support your position. Income tax rates on "job creators" have been the lowest since WWII. There is no redistribution, there is no socialism, since about 1980s your side has been winning, and look at the results. Conservatives appear to despise the results of conservative policies but somehow seem to be unable pinpoint the blame. You only have yourself to blame for the current size of the national debt. It's worst than your graphic implies, the top restructure their income, ie Warren Buffett pays only 15% because he isn't paid in normal W2 wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 It's worst than your graphic implies, the top restructure their income, ie Warren Buffett pays only 15% because he isn't paid in normal W2 wages I know, but I did not want to get drowned in details. Details hurt conservative brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I know, but I did not want to get drowned in details. Details hurt conservative brains. They hurt progressive/liberals ones as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I know, but I did not want to get drowned in details. Details hurt conservative brains. So, first this has been stable since 1980. We were supposedly out of debt in 1999. You know.... Clinton "saved" us. So explain the last decade and a half! Run the same graph showing debt. Oh, and we are well lubed for free community college for everyone, a new fed tax hike on the rich and a new fed gas tax. Nobody has a tube of KY big enough to prepare for the tax and spend ideas we'll hear Tues night. More liberal crap. Progressives only seek answers by trying desperately to turn America into a Eurpean social democratic state. Not very progressive. Tax the wealthiest to death and feed it to a disincentivize the lower class. The only thing this graph shows is our post war industrial might and the gradual hangover from FDR. Old news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I haven't been paying attention to current events this week. Did this really happen? Hahaha! Is it me or does that French man look uncomfortable with all the heartfelt emotion from Kerry? All I can say is that at least he didn't bring the old reset button... http://youtu.be/cnGJWYfsdT4 http://youtu.be/kuWEkUcS0lI Awkward. Awkwardness on top of incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 So, first this has been stable since 1980. We were supposedly out of debt in 1999. You know.... Clinton "saved" us. So explain the last decade and a half! Run the same graph showing debt. Oh, and we are well lubed for free community college for everyone a new fed tax hike on the rich and a new fed gas tax. Nobody has a tube of KY to prepare the tax and spend ideas we see Tues night. More liberal crap. Progressives only seek answers by trying desperately to turn America into a Eurpean social democratic state. Not very progressive. Tax the wealthiest to death and feed it to a disincentivize the lower class. The only thing this graph shows is the gradual hangover from FDR. Old news. We were out of deficit in 1999, not debt. You don't want more debt, pay the effing bills. How does the government pay it's bills? It collects taxes. Yes, I want the taxes raised and yes, I want them raised substantially. I see no problem whatsoever with a 70% tax rate over certain incomes. Are you going to tell me that the Waltons will just close the shop and move Walmart to Somalia? Nope, not a damn thing will change for millionaires…And I hate to break it to you, the wealthy do just fine in Europe. Last time I chilled out in south of France there was no shortage of Ferraris and giant boats. Waltons and their ilk benefit greatly from government programs, including food stamps that keep their workers fed and ready to report for duty. I just believe they should pay for it. I know, such a liberal concept. Either pay for it in wages or pay for it in taxes. I don't care which. I'd prefer wages. Your side offers no solution what so ever other than malnourished, illiterate children trained to say "Yes, Sir". Freedom to obey should be the conservative motto. And I'm sorry, last decade and a half, 8 years of that had your boy in charge and if I recall correctly their motto was "deficits don't matter, Reagan proved it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Capitalism is the answer. NOT socialism. Scott. Please define the way you are using those terms. Every one of the top 10 countries on "my list" (which isn't of course "my list", but rather one developed by the OECD) is capitalist. All their citizens enjoy fundamental economic and democratic freedoms. Some of them have some degree of public ownership of certain resources or industries, some have less. We'd call them "liberal democracies". But socialist? Please. Here's another list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states I think you'll find that none of the top 10 OECD countries are on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 What would you recommend we do? Bomb Paris' ghettos? I asked and all you ever propose is symbolism and buzzwords. I get it, you're a sentimental fellow. Best we can do here is let CIA, NSA and FBI do there jobs infiltrating various organizations and then depending on whether it's a friend's or foe's territory, either arrest or make a small crater. .. Yeah right... As far as the French and European "no-go" zones are concerned. There is a reason massive Muslim populations have settled in Detroit and Buffalo, they can establish these very tragedies here. Or maybe they just like the crisp winter weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Scott. Please define the way you are using those terms. Every one of the top 10 countries on "my list" (which isn't of course "my list", but rather one developed by the OECD) is capitalist. All their citizens enjoy fundamental economic and democratic freedoms. Some of them have some degree of public ownership of certain resources or industries, some have less. We'd call them "liberal democracies". But socialist? Please. Here's another list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states I think you'll find that none of the top 10 OECD countries are on it. Sure.... Capitalist on the top. Now do population dispersions of some of these countries. They are one tenth our size and GDP. It easy for Sweden to provide free medical care, great education and a free meal ticket to their huddled masses because they don't have 400 million people. Capitalist? Sure. Social democracies, you bet your butt. They deserve their Muslim problems and they have enough critical mass of wealthy to require they pay 65% taxation. Please, not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah right... As far as the French and European "no-go" zones are concerned. There is a reason massive Muslim populations have settled in Detroit and Buffalo, they can establish these very tragedies here. Or maybe they just like the crisp winter weather. I'm sorry, flip Fox news back on. They apologized today for false reporting. There is no such thing as "no-go" zones and Fox knows it: http://gawker.com/fox-news-apologizes-for-impressively-dumb-and-wrong-isl-1680272051 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 What would you recommend we do? Bomb Paris' ghettos? I asked and all you ever propose is symbolism and buzzwords. I get it, you're a sentimental fellow. Best we can do here is let CIA, NSA and FBI do there jobs infiltrating various organizations and then depending on whether it's a friend's or foe's territory, either arrest or make a small crater. .. Yeah right... As far as the French and European "no-go" zones are concerned. There is a reason massive Muslim populations have settled in Detroit and Buffalo, they can establish these very tragedies here. Or maybe they just like the crisp winter weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah.. Right. I'll drop you off in the Muslim suburbs of Malmö Sweden and give you a cell phone to call for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Sure.... Capitalist on the top. Now do population dispersions of some of these countries. They are one tenth our size and GDP. It easy for Sweden to provide free medical care, great education and a free meal ticket to their huddled masses because they done have 400 million people. Capitalist? Sure. Social democracies, you bet your butt. They deserve their Muslim problems and they have enough critical mass of wealthy to require they pay 65% taxation. Please, not here. And we don't have the critical mass of wealthy? I was under the impression we were exceptional and the richest country on the face of this planet? Or are you telling me they are smarter than us, since they spend 1/2 on healthcare and get better results. We are just as much a social democracy as they are. Except that we cut the monthly dole check to Lockheed Martin... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah.. Right. I'll drop you off in the Muslim suburbs of Malmö Sweden and give you a cell phone to call for help. I'm pretty positive that one is still safer in Malmo, Sweden than anywhere in US of A. Swedish murder rate is 6 times lower than ours. The only major crimes occurring the Malmo was a crazy right wingers shooting at Muslims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I really liked this comment: There are places in America that are Muslim "no go" zones, where there is just so much of Christ's love, Muslims can't even exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorealOne Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Sure.... Capitalist on the top. Now do population dispersions of some of these countries. They are one tenth our size and GDP. It easy for Sweden to provide free medical care, great education and a free meal ticket to their huddled masses because they done have 400 million people. Capitalist? Sure. Social democracies, you bet your butt. They deserve their Muslim problems and they have enough critical mass of wealthy to require they pay 65% taxation. Please, not here. I'm intrigued. Why is it inherently harder for larger economies and populations to invest in health, education and infrastructure? One would think that economies of scale and centralization efficiencies would work just as well for 400 million people, if not better, than as they do for 40 million or 4 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 And we don't have the critical mass of wealthy? I was under the impression we were exceptional and the richest country on the face of this planet? ...Total per capita. And BorealOne, please don't post Wiki links with a Marxist definition of European social democracies. There is a vast difference between a Eurpean liberal-elite political class that has screwed up everything they touched and "Cummunism". And Andy, you knew this was coming. http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'm intrigued. Why is it inherently harder for larger economies and populations to invest in health, education and infrastructure? One would think that economies of scale and centralization efficiencies would work just as well for 400 million people, if not better, than as they do for 40 million or 4 million. Because it requires political will. Why has only 60% of federal highway funds have actually made it to roads and bridges? It's the number one coffer that is looted. Now we have a crisis and they want and need more. People are tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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