Replacing engine Advice !!

[DOC]

2000 Ovation with 1540 TT airframe and engine.  Considering replacing engine now.  Current compressions 62/80 74/80 60/80 60/80 70/80 70/80.  I am told this is still good for a plane with 1540 TT.  I will fly about 100 hrs per year max. but money is certainly not going to get cheaper than it is now especially by the time I will have to replace it.  What do you think?  Factory Reman. or Fact New? Or should I do it at all?

 

Thanks

 

 

[OR75]

compression value are one thing. You can obtain different values if the test was redone.

 

Questions:

1) what does UOA says ? does it use a lot of oil ?

 

2) you obviously have been flying that plane for a while. Any concern you started having with it ( like unusual noise, oil consumption up, etc ...) ?   

[Mooneymite]

Part 91?

 

Keep flying.  If the low compressions bother you and don't come up by themselves, fix the jugs.

[DonMuncy]

You really should consider reading or listening to Mike Busch's webinars. His position is that engine overhaul/replacement should be on a condition basis, not on hours, and not on compressions. He makes a lot of sense to me.

[Cruiser]

What is the history of this engine? 

I would suggest you contact Savvy Aviators and look at their maintenance management service.

 

https://www.savvymx.com/

[orionflt]

all good advice above, don't be in a rush to get rid of your current engine if it isn't having any issues. If you are not doing oil analysis, I may start just to see what my contaminant levels are and if they start to change significantly. as for compressions, with the continental engines you can have compressions below 60 and still be good according to continental inspection procedures. if and when you do replace the engine i would look at the factory reman vs new IMHO.

 

Brian

[DOC]

I am just now purchasing this plane. It has been well taken care of and no issues.  I had just gotten some advice that Continental will give you credit for your old engine if it is good vs if it has problems then the reman will obviously be more.

[orionflt]

If you are going to go that route, factor it all into the purchase price, there is something to be said for having a low time engine but you still have the initial break in period to deal with (IE. if its going to break it will probably be with in the first 100 hour) of course on the other hand, with a high time engine it's just a matter of when will you have an issue  good luck with your purchase , hope we helped.

Brian

[kmyfm20s]

If you just got the plane I would get to know it first. Practice your engine managment skills and who knows the compressions will most likely go up. When I bought my plane the compressions ranged from 71-74 and after 6 months of flying they went up to 79's. I don't know what cylinders cost for your engine but you could just top it and fly to 2300hrs.if the economics work out.

[KSMooniac]

I would fly it for a while and see how it is performing.  It might be in great shape.  If you decide to overhaul it, I'd highly recommend a Powermasters overhaul from Tulsa OK.  They apparently work wonders with the IO-550 engines...  Mitch on this site is getting his R engine done by them right now.  CMI still has issues building cylinders correctly and a lot of the good overhaul shops will do a much better job than the factory.

[rbridges]

I agree with everyone else, I'd wait for something else before I tore into the engine.  Keep monitoring the compressions, check oil analysis, etc.  Start putting money into a rainy day jar in the meantime.

[n824jl]

The condition of the powerplant isn't going to get better as it gets near tbo.  TBO is established by the mfj. and represents an average time in service that allows an overhaul to be cost effective rather than to scrap and replace with new.  With the time you presented, it is likely the crankshaft, case, and accessories are in a condition to be repaired / recertified and put back into service.  A factory reman does not ensure that the above items are necessarily new, and may in fact be reconditioned (crankshaft could be reground to service limits).  That said, an "field" overhaul by a non-factory shop might be a consideration.  Like the factory, the shop would send the cases,crankshaft,  metal,etc. to repair stations where repair and re-cert. would be accomplished.  The overhaul then becomes an assembley process.  Cont. is offering a balanced piston and cylinder promo that might interest you.  Lots of other items could enter your decision,such as the time since overhaul of  starter drive, alternator clutch, magneto time since overhaul, etc.  If you could factor the overhaul cost into your buying negotiations, the early overhaul could prove very cost effective.  Having a "fresh" powerplant is a real plus to an allready great aircraft, 

Jim

[Alan Fox]

This is not a Lycoming , this is a continental , the compression spec for being "low" is 40/80 ....If it runs good and is not making metal , than Fly it, these engines can run as far as 3000 hours safely , even though the TBO is 1700 or 2000 , TBO is a recommendation , not a requirement in part 91 , Also , as long as there is no "Catastrophic" failure , Continental will give full core value .......  Even if the crank is no good (IE var A.D.)  

[aaronk25]

If it were my plane and I had 1 billion dollars in my checking account There is no way I would take apart a perfectly good engine. You know what you got and there is no way I would remove good functioning proven parts. How can you be assured that the mechanic torques each and ever bolt on every cylinder correctly. Several engines have came apart because of improperly torqued cylinder bolts. Also new parts scare the willys out of me. Like said mentioned above watch this: http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1204537102001

[aaronk25]

Oh almost forgot this, since this is Phil's old mooney you just purchased I know he ran it 100 rich of peak almost all the time so if you run it lean of peak for let's say 50 hours the compressions should come back up as there is some deposits in the rings from the rich mixture.

Also he never ran the heads over 400 so the head should be in great shape. Please...please...please don't pull the cylinders.

Add cam guard to the oil.

[Mooneymite]

Add cam guard to the oil.

 

 

 

 

Yeah....and use flaps for takeoff, too!  

[Shadrach]

The condition of the powerplant isn't going to get better as it gets near tbo.  TBO is established by the mfj. and represents an average time in service that allows an overhaul to be cost effective rather than to scrap and replace with new.  With the time you presented, it is likely the crankshaft, case, and accessories are in a condition to be repaired / recertified and put back into service.  A factory reman does not ensure that the above items are necessarily new, and may in fact be reconditioned (crankshaft could be reground to service limits).  That said, an "field" overhaul by a non-factory shop might be a consideration.  Like the factory, the shop would send the cases,crankshaft,  metal,etc. to repair stations where repair and re-cert. would be accomplished.  The overhaul then becomes an assembley process.  Cont. is offering a balanced piston and cylinder promo that might interest you.  Lots of other items could enter your decision,such as the time since overhaul of  starter drive, alternator clutch, magneto time since overhaul, etc.  If you could factor the overhaul cost into your buying negotiations, the early overhaul could prove very cost effective.  Having a "fresh" powerplant is a real plus to an allready great aircraft, 

Jim

I have seen compressions improve as much as 10 PSI from one annual to the next. Does ths mean the engine is getting better? No, what it means is that one measurement of engine health has improved and that the previous "low" reading was not much of an indicator of engine health. The bottom ends of most of these engines are pretty close to bullit proof. Cranks meeting spec at TBO and beyond is more the norm than the exception. If he has a solid running bottom end at 1540, odds are it will,still be in fine shape at 2350. I would not tare down this engine for comps that are still 20 psi above min specs. If the engine has been sporadically flown for the last several years and is put into routine service, it's entirely plausible for the comps to come back into the 70s. Does that mean its good to go? I would not consider any used engine solid until I had 50 hours behind it and a favorable OA.

[BigTex]

I've also heard that the big Continentals should only have compression's checked after you've flown for some time.

[carusoam]

I went with factory reman...

The advantage, if your going this way...

You can have the fastest factory built, N/A, single engine airplane on or off the planet.

IO550(n) with a Hartzell TopProp... All the O3s have them!

You may consider going new as well...

What is the shop doing the PPI recomend?

Go make it happen,

-a-

[DOC]

Thank you everyone.  I am certainly not a mechanic, I fix teeth and patients with painful infections.  I need all the guidance you all can give.  Sounds like the majority lean toward continuing to run this motor.

 

Thanks aaronk25.  Sounds like you know this plane.  That is comforting to know it has been taken care of.  This is a situation where I have to trust concensus and a good mechanic just like patients have to have some blind faith in me that I am going to treat them right.

 

How many vote for the Acclaim Type S 3 blade Hartzell prop over the Standard heavier 3 blade Hartzell prop?

[carusoam]

I would consider going with the lighter composite to remove weight from the nose...

I went with the heavier version for better longevity.

The composite has LOW inertia...

I haven't see anyone say that it is OK to have such low inertia on an aviation engine. How are flywheels selected anyway?

Watch an SR22 turn off the engine to see a quick halt to rotation.

Expect that a new prop and engine will cost north of $50k.

A PPI of the plane from a reputable source will tell you if it is needed.

Realistically IO550 engines on Mooneys don't wear out prior to TBO. Cylinders have been know to need attention, depending on who uses them.

Did you mean overhaul or did you mean top overhaul?

Would you get a new prop? The plane is only 5 years old.

Everyone has a personal opinion of what expensive is... Overhauling an engine prior to TBO and hanging a new prop on it when it is an O3 already! That's expensive in my book!

Maybe I just don't get it. I must be misunderstanding the details.

Best regards,

-a-

[DOC]

Carusoam,

 

I think you are thinking we are talking about the 2008 Ovation 3 that I was considering.  I have chosen the 2000 Ovation with 1540 TT.  That is why I was talking about and engine change etc.  I can see how the confusion  came about.  Sorry.  

 

Thanks for your input

[DAVIDWH]

IO550, 2451 hours

 

Engine strong, routine oil analysis, no metal.

 

Not considering overhaul. 

[carusoam]

In that case power it up with the O3 engine and prop. Because you can.

You can save some cash by going factory reman instead of new.

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Wow David!

Years ago, I thought I was going to be first to go beyond TBO with an IO550. I was fortunate and my plan had to be changed...

How long did your cylinders last?

Best regards,

-a-