A64Pilot

Curious, we’re you born when your airplane was built? At you guys age I think I was trying to afford a VW

Actually people do it all of the time, but usually there is an engine and prop to overhaul. My neighborhood isn’t all that big about 80 houses. two people rebuild / overhaul and or actually build at least one aircraft each over winter. One guy is from Maine and builds a Super Cub every year, the other guy is from Alaska and shows up with a Beaver that he refurbs. Both do it to sell, as those two aircraft are quite sought after they can be quite a bit of profit. The Beaver guy has moved on, the Super Cub guy just sold this years project for $100,000 Average Crop duster is an A&P and during the off season it’s pretty common they refurb an aircraft to sell

Unfortunately I don’t believe the J model is on the PP’s approved model list, not saying it wouldn’t work though. I did look as it’s less expensive and while a cannon plug is easier to install, I feel crimped terminals are more secure and easier to replace There are four wires, and I believe it’s as simple as power, ground, field and over voltage annunciation

To be honest I was not a pilot before I was an A&P, so I really don’t know the pilots limitations, but surely they are allowed to spray cleaner into a switch, so long as they aren’t removing the switch? My journey was different than most, I took a written, due to military experience and “poof” I was a Commercial pilot with an instrument ticket

It would help tremendously. Spruce doesn’t have any in stock, I assume Zeftronics does, but they are almost $100 more than Spruce. Would you be interested in selling it? If not having a known good to test would be nice, may save me a lot of money, because honestly I’m down to either it being the VR or the cannon plug. I’ve cleaned the cannon plug best I can with no change. Mine is the 1981 original so it doesn’t owe me anything. There are apparently two different cannon plugs though, one is a large metal Mil Spec and the other is a smaller black plastic cannon plug, mine is the smaller black plastic one.

I knew that restarts at altitude are a big deal on a Diesel as they are a compression ignition engine, but never knew it about a spark ignition turbo.

If your pushing fuel, run one dry. I was told that by a very experienced ferry pilot. his reasoning was then you know there is nothing left in that wing, many have convinced themselves there is enough when there isn’t. But when you know all there is is what’s in the one wing, your more likely to find a place to land. Runing one dry at altitude isn’t big deal really, first it’s unlikely it will suddenly quit. most likely it will droop in power and maybe surge a bit, usually you have the selector on the other tank by that time and it picks up and is fine. Personally I won’t go below 5 gls in a tank if I’m below cruise altitude, afraid I’ll get busy and forget and run out at low altitude. The calibrated stick is a pretty good way to know about how much fuel there is on a partial tank. you can also buy ones that look like a tube and you stick your finger over the end to hold the fuel into read the level. Best plan is to start with an empty tank and add some amount, say 5 gls at a time and mark the stick, once done transfer the marks to another stick so when you lose it, you have a master to mark another.

If you use a stick and they are good, be darn sure to use a stick long enough so that it can’t be dropped into the tank. ‘I had a heck of a time fishing one out of a C-210’s wing. ‘Oh, and back the totalizer up with a clock, only time you can have too much gas is if your on fire.

That would make sense as their maintenance procedures guide or whatever it’s called is extensive, and I bet expands greatly on it. I’d guess galley parts for say the coffee maker would be treated differently than some flight control hydraulic valve. I’ve never worked 121 or even 135 for that matter but it’s my understanding that the 121’s guys books cover in great detail. far more than the FAR’s Anyone way more curious than I am, here is a link https://www.faa.gov/documenTLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 120-16F.pdf

OK you convinced me

You know I believe even 121 guys can do the owner produced parts, need to look that up, because that’s tough to believe. ‘The Brits used to love to come as exchange Officers to the Army test activity, because we could do pretty much anything, but the brits had to get permission from the manufacturer to change brand of tires on their military aircraft. on edit, sure looks like it, but i bet their approved maintenance program won’t let them n. Owner/Operator Produced Part. Parts that were produced by an owner/operator for installation on their own aircraft (i.e., by a certificated air carrier). An owner/operator is considered a producer of a part, if the owner participated in controlling the design, manufacture, or quality of the part. Participating in the design of the part can include supervising the manufacture of the part or providing the manufacturer with the following: the design data, the materials with which to make the part, the fabrication processes, assembly methods, or the quality control (QC) procedures. https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac 20-62e.pdf

I’ll ask my Son to send a pic of a Thrush shock, it’s a stack of rubber biscuits, andI’ve heard some replace them with a Combine spring. Crop dusters will do anything. ‘I had one bring an aircraft into the repair station, I looked in the cockpit and saw he had replaced the torque meter, now it’s just an oil pressure gauge, but a very accurate one as the torque limit is 58.7 lbs at 2200 RPM or 64.5 lbs at 2000 RPM. This guys torque meter said John Deere on it. I tired my best to get him to understand that you can’t just do that.

Without getting Mooney’s drawing, I don’t think you possibly could. And you have definitely modified the type design, because your biscuits are too soft or too hard etc, and it’s possible that the aircraft wouldn’t pass the drop test, and that of course changes max gross. It’s actually a can of worms,one would think the best design would be one soft puck and others getting harder, so you initially have a soft compliment suspension, that stiffens up when needed, and as I interpret the reg, you could do that, but how well would it really work? The whole owner produced parts is actually nuts, nothing stops you from building a crankshaft, or how about a high lift cam? The HUGE overriding major big deal in manufacturing aircraft is conformity, everything to the last detail must meet the type design, the drawings. ‘Owner produced parts throws that out the window, I think it well intentioned, but expect it to change. I think it was meant as a way to keep old orphaned aircraft flying. Neighbor has a Stinson Reliant, now where do you think he can get parts? I have a 46 C-140, it’s easy, but if you have an old Taylorcraft maybe not, with OPP you can keep the historic aircraft flying.

It’s always been that way. Maule uses an OMC relay for their starter relay, but they don’t jack the price up as much. ‘Beechcraft door locks I’ve been told cost hundreds and come from Home Depot, they are cheap desk locks. ‘In the example of these off the shelf purchased parts what makes them aircraft parts is that they have been indoctrinated into the manufacturers quality control system. You hear all the time what makes an aircraft alternator an aircraft part is that in manufacturing every single piece part is inspected and the auto ones it’s every now and again, but airplane parts get special treatment. Well that’s not really true. Auto parts are purchased and QC logs the certs, the box or maybe the part gets a QC stamp and its an aircraft part. ‘Unfortunately it’s become pretty common to jack parts prices through the roof in order to make the plant profitable, but very often they are actually losing business I never could get the idiot that owned the plant I worked at to understand that if you jack the prices up high enough, you don’t make any money, because you don’t sell any parts. People learn the sources of supply and buy direct and or if the price is high enough just about anything becomes repairable, and people would specialize in “repairing” flight controls etc when there wasn’t an original part left. You see that in Ga with exhaust systems and engine baffling and a few others, engine mounts, welded landing gear assemblies and well bunches of things are “repaired” but try to find any of the original part. ‘Oh, we got skads of parts quotes, for insurence, but never sold any parts, or usually didn’t anyway.

You see, I have been an Aircraft manufacturer for 15 years so I understand what the FAA is saying, you provide QC by inspecting the part AFTER manufacture, you can’t inspect something that doesn’t exist yet. But you have to have something to inspect to. The drawing provides that as well as the tolerances the part is required to meet, as is, I doubt any of his parts can meet drawing specs because he states no tolerance, and when no tolerance is stated, none exists and holding .001 with an elastomer is tough and surely unnecessary Everything in an aircraft manufacturing facility is “bought in” nuts, bolts, cotter pins, everything. often it’s just checking “certs” which provide traceability of the parts, but anything made for us meant the drawings came out and each part was inspected IAW the drawings. Many, many parts were supplied. the throttle and prop cables were supplied by a boat parts supplier in Fl, the brake master cylinders came from NAPA, they were I believe Studerbaker truck master cylinders that we modified slightly and installed rubber bits thst were compatible with 5606. But all of it was QC’d or inspected when it arrived at the plant. Pic of my Son, by his hand you will see four Master cylinders, those are the Studabaker truck parts. I never knew Studabaker built a truck, and astonishingly they are widely available through NAPA.

If I understand the question and I may not, but in my opinion no Its not a matter of getting the language right, thats what a lawyer does, and we are talking about mechanics here. ‘It’s a matter of participating in the production of the part, so you need to be involved in its design, supervising its production or maybe quality control. ‘Well design is tough as it’s already designed, and I doubt your traveling to S Africa to watch it be molded and cooked, but quality control is easy, a quick visual to ensure it’s bonded, not cracked, get the calipers out and measure it and ideally he supplies a statement of its durometer. Then there is no question that you have been involved with the production of this part, and it took you maybe a minute of your time, and your probably going to give them a good look over anyway. ‘I’d make a quick list of my inspection points and keep that along with the part drawing in the aircraft maintenance records. ‘I stay away from the word manufacturing because for some reason the FAA does, they keep calling it producing, and the person making it the producer, there must be a reason why. If you build an experiment airplane, your the manufacturer, not the producer?

If your really asking for advice or what would I do if I wanted to use these parts, I’d take his drawing and add some tolerances to it maybe + or - .020 or something, because the way it is now the parts can’t vary even .001 because he specs to the third decimal, likely because a calculator derived that from a metric equal. But if a part is only .001 out they way the drawing is now, it doesn’t meet spec and isn’t usable, and I’m sure these things don’t have to be that precise. ‘But by adding in some tolerance I have changed the drawing specifications, and I would provide quality control for the parts and “buy” them in when I received them, by measuring them and ensuring they meet tolerances, I am providing quality control, which is one of the five things you can provide and make it an owner produced part. ‘Then I would make the logbook entry exactly like in that link I provided But in all honestly as having had a lot to do with an aircraft with elastomer landing gear biscuits, my concern is that there is no durometer spec for the parts on the drawing, so they could be marshmallow soft or rock hard. I’m certain Mooney’s parts spec a durometer, or I’d bet lunch they do anyway. With Thrush part of the landing gear drop test required the biscuits to be tested and within the drawings specs for hardness, just as the tires had to be inflated to spec pressure. How hard or how soft the biscuits were mattered greatly to when something broke. According to my logbook. my 41 yr old airplane had its biscuits replaced for the first time three or four years ago, and they appear to be in new condition now, so if they only last say ten years, and if they cost $150 ea and there are 11 of them, then that’s $1650 or $165 a year, I can handle that. what bothers me is $1,000 for an off the shelf relay, or $500 for an off the shelf switch

Two things, OK maybe three Your first sentence the drawing has to be owner produced and the drawing has to precede the part, in other words the part has to be made to the drawings specs, not the other way around, and by the producer sending you a drawing that’s complete clearly is not an owner designed or produced part, you signing it doesn’t make it your design Your second sentence, your absolutely correct, you just stated why this is not an owner produced part, no I’m not saying it would be legal, I’m saying if you choose to go ahead and purchase these parts and claim that you designed the part, at least have an original drawing. ‘None of you is pretending to actually participate in the manufacture of this part, yet you choose to act as though it’s an owner produced part. Your third statement having a lawyer draft a letter that you sign doesn’t make it an owner produced part either. ‘There are five ways it can be a owner produced part and none of them are sign a form letter or a supplied drawing. You guys are wanting your cake and eating it too, none of you have answered why your won’t make the logbook entry that you produced the part I’m not going to convince any of you. that’s obvious, but I do believe many who are not responding may be giving it consideration. ‘All of our insurence policies I’m sure require that the aircraft be maintained in an airworthy standard, it may behoove you to ensure that they are. For those that consider PMA and TSO etc to be nonsense, there is a category of aircraft just for you, and many of them are actually pretty good aircraft, you should should sell your Certified Aircraft and build one of them, then you don’t have to worry about picky IA’s and A&P’s anymore and you can choose the parts you like

It’s a Gann performance overhaul, approx 400 hours and maybe 6 years. Why?

Similar but maybe not the same as he says his voltage is stable, which isn’t possible if the amperage is swinging, like that, so if his voltage is stable ,then it’s an indicator issue in my opinion. Here is mine yesterday, it comes and goes, I’m pretty much most likely down to the pins in the cannon plug or the VR. Just really don’t want to spend $500 on a VR and it not fixit if I can help it. Especially when every trouble shooting guide I can find says it a power supply problem to the VR B3417D94-F093-4BE8-A13E-75FFDB2D0247.MOV

Any good mechanic is going to want to see “certs”, you know something like a yellow tag, especially for a part a owner supplies, and even then the logbook entry will usually state, “installed owner supplied xxx” The yellow tag ensures the airworthiness of a part, that’s why most of us have a folder full of them or a bunch of them stapled in the logbook. ‘At the repair station I kept a file for each aircraft, and copied logbook entries work orders and yellow tags etc, made the FAA inspector happy, and covered the Companies behind. By making that entry, you supply the “certs” Why don’t you want to make the entry?

I don’t know what it’s called but you guys are trying to convince yourselves of something that isn’t true. ‘You have to provide the design, the producer sending you a design for you to send back to them where you fill in your tail number is not providing a design, plus the part is made AFTER the design is received, and to the drawing, not before. This producer is clearly manufacturing batches of parts that are stocked and ready to be shipped, or they certainly are holding themselves out to be. ‘I gave you guys a way out, it’s in the link I posted. Basically someone is going to have to clam it’s an owner produced part and put that in the logbook, which you are allowed to do, and in fact are probably required to do. You make that entry that’s in the article, that was written by a FSDO inspector, and that relieves an A&P from having to determine the source of the part, from that point on his liability is determining the airworthiness of the part and installing them correctly. But that would be true for any part, the biscuits from Spruce too. ‘If you want to use these parts, follow the instructions in that article. I wouldn't save any drawings either as I don’t see where that’s required and it would tough for me to try to prove that I produced that drawing, if some of you have the software and computer skills, then maybe copy it. But I woudn’t use the one sent by the producer, odds are pretty good if the FAA were ever to ask questions that they have seen it before, 99 times out of 100 they are responding to some kind of complaint, it’s very rare that they go looking, someone almost always tips them off. Often it’s the manufacturer of a PMA part, so the guy who makes the $100+ ones that Spruce sells sees a drop in shipments, hears about this guy i’m South Africa and reports him via the FAA’s Suspected Unapproved Parts program,if they make enough noise the FAA has to investigate, often an AD is eventually issued, maybe. ‘The Powerplant DER we used to use compared the FAA to a bear in the woods, you walk by the woods day after day all the time knowing there is a bear in the woods, but nothing happens. Then one day for seemingly no apparent reason the bear comes charging out of the woods and your running for your life, wondering why? https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/

Don’t Bonanza’s have some kind of wind spar inspection now? i don’t know the scope or frequency, but think there is one.

I’ve done that and was surprised at how little the oil flow there is. There is a theory, probably a good one too that low oil flow causes wear of the exhaust valves for lack of cooling and lubrication. Bad lifter you should be able to find with a big screwdriver. For those that haven’t tried it, place the tip on the engine and the plastic handle in your ear, it will conduct the sound through the screwdriver, of course a mechanic stethoscope is probably better, never had one myself.

Actually, your not required to comply with the SB, if you want to play that game, don’t do any of it, keep the old main bearings too. I’m all about saving a nickel, but by not replacing bearings and rod bolts etc when your there, is how you end up with a thrown rod etc. But I’m not posting this stuff for those that believe they know more than professionals that have spent most of their adult life in aircraft maintenance. ‘I’m posting it for the guy with the cracked case that started this thread and others that may be here one day, if you fly long enough odds are you will, maybe not a cracked case but something will have you splitting them, prop strike, bad cam etc. To not change bearings when your there and start with a new bottom end makes about as much sense as not repacking bearings when you change a tire. But as a Professional, not complying with that SB in its entirety is not only wrong, it’s cheating the customer, but it’s also crazy from a legal standpoint. Even ten years down the road let that engine have a failure like the 231 in Dawson Ga just did, and if that SB wasn’t complied with, and especially if there was a fatality or serious injury any slick Lawyer prints it out with all that RED printing and shows it to a jury, and your done, you have lost everything, and the Lawyer gets a down payment on a new Porsche and moves to the next personal injury case. So anyone you pay to R&R a case who doesn’t comply with that SB, because you know even though it says mandatory in big red letters, you don’t have to, not for part 91, isn’t a professional, same guy I guess that you people claim that will sign off an annual for a case of beer. For you guys that don’t TBO, replacing bearings on a mid time engine when it’s apart is how you get one to go way past overhaul, because ensuring the crank is within limits (a mid time Lycoming crank will be ) and installing new bearings is pretty much a new bottom end. If the crank is worn behind limits do you really want to fly it IFR over mountains or at night? Same for the cam and lifters. your not going to inspect for wear and catch the beginnings of a failing camshaft BEFORE it fills the engine with metal? This is your one chance to closely inspect everything while it’s laying there on the table out in plain sight, and to replace bearings etc that by design wear and start over with an engine that will likely go for many more years trouble free. ‘There are essentially three kinds of maintenance : scheduled, preventative and on condition. On condition is the guy who has a leaking water pump on his truck who drains the coolant, changes the pump and puts the old coolant back in and dives away thinking of how much money he saved, and a month later blows a radiator hose, or the thermostat sticks and overheats the engine and warps a head etc. ‘The Preventative maintenance guy, flushes the system to start with, and puts on new hoses, new thermostat, belts and coolant and doesn’t have another cooling issue for years, maybe decades, because he does preventative maintenance and changes coolant every few years, the on condition guy says leave it alone it’s working. You the owner gets to pick the level of maintenance performed, remember that when your IFR at night or flying the family to the Bahamas for a vacation.