A64Pilot

It may seem silly to some, but semantics are important to the FAA, I’d remove it, disassemble, clean, inspect and repair it, but I wouldn't overhaul or rebuild it. Talking about the logbook entry. A few years ago I had the guy who Owns Oregon Aero fly his PC-12 to the plant to drop off seat cushions he had made for the aircraft we manufactured, Probably was on his way to Fl or something and this made it a business trip ‘He said soon after opening his business he had two FAA inspectors come to his house, they were wearing this big ID card around their necks and they way they acted he expected to see guns but didn’t, anyway they were reading him the riot act and telling him about the possible penalties like imprisonment if he didn’t ceases and desist. ‘He thought he was going to lose his business, but after a while he realized that all it was, was that he wasn’t allowed to advertise that he rebuilt seats, he was only allowed to say he repaired seats, what he was doing was irrelevant, it was the wording they were upset about. So after breathing a huge sigh or relief he assured him that he would never say he rebuilt seats anymore, and everyone was happy. ‘There is actually something called fuel lube, it’s a type of grease specifically made for things like fuel valves, I’d use it on reassembly. Well maybe fuel lube is gone, but this is its replacement I guess. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php?clickkey=9406

There was an AD issued on Maule’s a few years ago, in Alaska after the Annual on the test flight the pilot was going to show off and do the famous “back in a minute” Maule takeoff, slammed back in the yoke and dug the nose in, the elevator cables had been reversed. FAA’s answer, paint one red. I have no idea how painting one red would help anything. I can see the mechanic thinking, is red up, or down? First B-17 prototype was lost due to control locks not being released, and more recently the Caribou turbine conversion. ‘Always wondered why Mooney has no control lock, the C-210 it’s just a wire with a flag so you will see it, no rudder lock. In 1946 Cessna knew better, pic is a 46 C-140 control lock. attaches to the yoke and both pedals, and you can’t get into the airplane with it installed Makes you wonder?

Did we ever hear what the failure was? Door left unlatched, or piano hinge broken, latch failed or what?

In my search for a good Mooney I ran into what looked pretty ideal, mid 80’’s J Model, mid time engine, paint 8 or so years old, interior a couple of years old, good avionics stack ‘It was in Naples Fl, so we drove down there and on walking up to it I knew it was a problem. He had the whole thing covered it looked like, wing covers and all. Stuck my head under the gear and there were holes eaten through the wheel wells from corrosion. ‘Airplane was gone, no way I would sign that thing off as airworthy. It has been there for 10 years apparently tied down the whole time. IfI had a good airplane I’d find the closest hanger I could, if that was a few hours drive I’d live with it. I’d put myself on whatever list I could locally of course, but I’d put my aircraft away in a hanger somewhere else until one came available close by. If it were pretty far away, I’d pickle the engine and just wait, but I wouldn’t tie down outside, especially not near the Ocean. ‘Essentially it’s an accelerated aging process, most of our aircraft are pretty old, it would be different if it were like a car and you bought a new one every few years, but aircraft are supposed to last decades, and if your like me a new one is a pipe dream.

Interesting. A Boats 1-2-ALL battery switch is built to connect the other battery prior to disconnecting the first when you switch from 1 to 2 or back. ‘It’s done that way to protect the alternator, apparently sudden disconnection of a battery can damage an alternator. Battery minder, Battery Tender, I’ll add another name, Float Charger. ‘All are three stage chargers, fist stage is bulk, which means the charger can’t supply enough amperage to bring the battery up to absorption voltage, so it’s known as current limited. second stage is absorption, Absorption voltage is reached and maintained as current drops, known as voltage limited. Ideally absorption voltage is maintained until acceptance reaches 1/2 of 1% of rated capacity of the battery in amp hours, but that requires a programmable charger, so minder / tenders will either use a timer or will drop to float upon reaching a very small acceptance rate, like .1 amp. .1 amp is better than a timer if you have either a large or small battery as they will be either under or overcharged. Desulphators are pure snake oil. I wish they weren’t. I wish they actually did work because they would actually recover capacity and add many years to a batteries life, because lead acid batteries die from sulphation. So when you see a charger that advertises it has a desulphator setting or cycle, pass on it. On edit, you can partially recover a sulphated battery with an intentional overcharge, short term sulphation is more reversible than long term sulphation. This intentional overcharge is often called an equalization charge as it’s also used on large stationary wet cell banks to mix or equalize the electrolyte as over time it will stratify or have different specific gravities on different levels and a overcharge will cause the battery to off faster and mix the electrolyte. Concorde calls this intentional overcharge a “Conditioning” charge But that’s not what chargers with desulphators do, they claim to pulse the battery with either high voltage or AC to burn off the sulphation. Concorde also manufacturers other batteries of course, their Lifeline line is essentially identical to the aircraft battery and is often used in large banks of batteries costing thousands of dollars and regularly deep cycled, so people really learn to take good care of them as they are expensive and often not obtainable where they may be. Of all the battery manufacturers, Concorde’s Lifeline battery manual is by far the most comprehensive of any manual. Do some reading, almost all of it is directly relatable to the Concorde Aircraft battery as they are pretty much identical. I’m not saying a Lifeline is Airworthy, it’s not of course. A lot of things carry over from non aircraft sources, like tire care for instance, caring for your aircraft tires is very similar to caring for your automobile tires, so if you know auto tires, you will mostly know aircraft tires. ‘Anyway for those interested, do some reading of the Lifeline manual, the construction, charging etc is pretty much identical to the aircraft battery. https://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-0101F-Lifeline-Technical-Manual-Final-5-06-19.pdf Of course the Aircraft battery manual, which takes precedence. https://batterymanagement.concordebattery.com/BatteryDocs/5-0171.pdf

What no giant F-104? I think Embraer may be the first, I would have said Gulfstream but their head of their Supersonic project got killed at Sun-N-Fun a decade or so ago? It will happen, there are quite a few astonishingly wealthy people out there that would pay for it as the ultimate display of wealth

The Federal Government, make a complaint, I can assure you the FAA will investigate, they take a acquisition like that extremely seriously. To heck with your livelihood, it’s Prison time to do what you suggest. Not saying it’s not done, but only a stupid person would do what you suggest. Huge, tremendous risk, and what’s the reward? What’s the motivation? ‘I know some Dr’s have sold drugs so there are stupid people out there, but surely they are few and far in between. ‘From my life in Aviation maintenance, 99% of the time it’s the aircraft owner that doing the unreported maintenance, because of course they can’t log it. ‘One of the things I tell people that most scoff at, is don’t be afraid of damage history, even serious damage if it was professionally done is fine. Instead be afraid of what’s not in the book. ‘I’ve had an aircraft broker, one of our dealers at the time take a razor blade and remove a log book page in front of me, he thought so little of me seeing that I guess, one slice and what was in the book is gone. ‘I’ve asked myself why logbook pages aren’t numbered and can’t come up with an answer.

The key to remember here though is what PT20J is doing, and that’s a yearly battery capacity check. A battery can easily start an engine and not have enough capacity to get you on the ground if the alternator quits and your IFR. Loss of communication and navigation in the clouds would suck ‘So if you do fly IFR it’s smart to do a cap check and replace the battery based on that, and don’t wait until the engine cranks slowly.

Are the batteries paralleled in a Rocket? If so that would mean that both would die together, I would assume maybe a Rocket has a battery select switch that isolates the two batteries? If so your going to need two minders. On edit, they make battery tenders that are for multiple batteries, up to at least 4 batteries so you could get one for two batteries and only have one charger. A few pics, the old fashioned metal box battery minder is within spec for a Concorde at 14.4 Absorption and 13.2 Float. Lastly bulging or concave sides are completely normal for a Concorde, that’s because it’s a valve regulated recombinant gas sealed lead acid battery, the valve won’t open and release gas unless it’s excess internal pressure, like when you climb to high altitude, so when you descend it’s sucked in in appearance, but as you charge hydrogen gas is produced and it will be recombined with oxygen into water, but until it is it will look bloated. ‘Concorde gives a class on their batteries and enough people are concerned about the bulge that they have a slide just for that.

I can believe that, I’ll call LASAR in the morning and order one, assumption is once they are gone if I bought it from them they will install it? What I’d like and maybe can’t get is it to be disassembled, inspected regreased and motor brushes inspected too. I assume these things are no longer available and would hope that parts to overhaul have been sourced? Odd thing is that I’ve spoken to a few Mooney drivers and not one has ever heard of a no back spring, and the IA that maintained mine before I bought it had obviously never heard of one either. I’ve only spoken to a few Mooney owners though. I think there may be quite a few flying around with original springs?

It may seem silly. but Concorde is a family owned purely US company, that does all it s manufacturing in the US. (data maybe 5 years old, don’t know if that’s still true) ‘I don’t know about Gill. I do know that they essentially give their batteries away to OEM’s because many only want the battery the airplane came with, but I’ve had a bad experience with a Gill and seen many others (wet cell only, don’t know about the AGM) Time will tell. but until then I’ll stick with Concorde. 85% is actually pretty good, I’d wager the majority of batteries out there are less than that as it’s exceedingly uncommon for someone to cap check a battery, even though it’s a required airworthiness item. Unless things have changed, a Concorde is the only battery that when new you don’t have to do a cap check, they check every battery before shipping, no one else does. ‘So legally you have to do a cap check on any other brand new battery, anyone ever seen that done? If you don’t fly often, a good battery minder will add users to the battery, but be careful, your looking for absorption voltage of 14.3 plus or minus .1 and a float voltage of 13.3 plus or minus .1. That’s for the Concorde AGM. Wet cell voltages are higher and I don’t know about the Gill AGM

That’s the C-140, it will do that with a 1/4 tank, but it only has one fuel pickup, I think many more modern aircraft have two per tank, does the Mooney? Only aircraft I’m aware of that prohibits slips with flaps is the Fowler equipped Cessna’s, the 140 with its plain flaps has no such prohibition. I’d be surprised if a Mooney with its low wing, high mounted stab and plain flaps would have a prohibition of no slips with flaps.

I slip sometimes, but if I do it’s because I came in too high, so it’s not usually intentional. ‘I’m going out on a limb a and going to guess he’s saying don’t touch down in a slip? As we don’t have down locks I believe you could collapse a gear if you do. Some aircraft it’s OK to touch down not aligned with the runway, coming from so much tail wheel time I couldn’t bring myself to do that though. Is there a prohibition of no slips with flaps like some Cessna’s in the POH?

The thing that struck me about that photo was the rod was completely separated from the crankshaft, and I’ve not seen that before, usually a rod will break in the middle somewhere. Makes me wonder if a rod bolt broke.

probably last 20 years

Who did or does yours? Noticed your in Fl.

I just got the airplane and I’m pretty sure nothing has ever been done to the gear actuator included. 2200 TT Been contemplating best course of action, searching back some it seems quite a few are determined that only a few years have bad springs in that they were formed after heat treat and that of course starts a crack, Don’t have any idea as to the validity of that. ‘I don’t think I want to do it myself, but do I take the aircraft to someone in Fl, or do I remove and send the actuator to Lazar or someone else? Are springs even available? I’ve not yet been able to buy a single Mooney part, relays, limit switches, gear switch, all are unavailable.

If there is an enormous hole in the top of the engine, I’d expect the preliminary report to say engine failure?

I believe it’s how they are cast, many Conti’s are sand cast and I believe that gives them a different finish, I’d assume rougher.

I was thinking that too, maybe enough to make seeing through the windshield impossible.

The rating I think only applies to maintenance, the manual if I remember correctly has you retracting and extending 5 times to check for proper operation and interference etc. Who cycles the gear over and over in flight?

Yes, it seems to be way de-rated, which I like, derating is often a way to a long life. Data plate says it’s good for 2000 lbs and 55 amps, It’s protected by a 15 amp breaker and mine seems to pull about 10 or 12 or so looking at the amp meter. I’m aware of the different gear ratios but am unaware of what I have. Gear cycle time seems quick but not really fast, I’d guess maybe 5 sec, but that’s a guess only, probably less. I took it out this morning and did several approaches and go-arounds, didn’t touch as I live on a grass field, it’s not rough, but it’s not smooth like pavement either. Go arounds are dead easy, just full throttle, get the gear and when you get the flaps, be running the trim nose down, the flaps and trim seem to wash each other out so there is no excessive pitch force. Anyway it hasn’t hesitated dropping gear yet, still early to declare victory, but I think it is the gear switch. I’ll feel better in a month.

Thank you.

You can run LOP at any altitude and any flight condition without harm, so long as you don’t increase power by too much, if you do you could cause harm. I didn’t say you will cause harm, just saying that at high power it’s possible to if lean. For me the fuel saving isn’t worth the risk. Let’s say you have a 10 min climb, and your burning 10 GPH more being ROP. I’m a simpleton and like simple numbers. ‘So that climb is 1/6 of an hour, so you will save 1.6 gallons LOP, and that’s with a 10 GPH difference, which is probably a little excessive. Check my math, I’m not good at math But if I’m turning and need to climb 1000 ft to maintain correct altitude, then I’ll leave power alone and just slow to climb. ‘But in cruise flight when traveling I’m often up high for comfort and am leaned out and at full throttle due to HP loss at altitude, so then I’ll just slow at little to climb as going rich isn’t a whole lot more power anyway. ‘You could of course climb ROP to say 7500 then transition to LOP and continue the climb, but I don’t but then my cruise is usually around 9 to 10 thousand anyway.

No one is saying it’s hard or that you have to be a pilot God, but it is different than most other aircraft. Most aircraft you can slow and descend, a Mooney it’s best to slow first, get dirtied up and then descend, better on the engine too as you don’t have to go to real lower power. I’m not saying drop gear at 10,000 feet, but its good to have them down prior to glide slope intercept. Same as landing, most aircraft you can shoot an approach at a little higher speed, chop power and it slows and lands, the Mooney of course doesn’t slow quickly, and how many accidents are there from people trying to land a Mooney like they did the 172 in training? But again, it’s not hard and doesn’t require excessive skill, it’s just different is all. My little J doesn’t get its decent cruise speed from its mighty 200 HP, it’s get it from low drag, and drag of course is your friend if your trying to slow. Be nice to have those speed brakes, butI I’m a poor old retired guy so I’ll have to do without. ‘I exacerbate it as I won’t drop gear until near the white arc, yes I know what the max allowed is, but I believe if you do things at the max limits all the time,it’s going to increase wear. Thsts one difference between an aircraft renter and an owner. On edit back in training with the Mooney, the Cherokee 180 for instance I would figure 500 FPM descent and if I had 8,000 to lose about 18 min or so out I’d trim it to 500 FPM and enjoy the speed, at 8,000 throttle was wide open of course ‘First cross country I did that in the Mooney and after a short while I noticed I was right at VNE. ‘Most aircraft after level off you let it accelerate a short while and trim it and your done, a Mooney will slowly keep building speed requiring more re-trimming than most, again not hard, just different, even if you do the climb 200’ over assigned and slowly descend to assigned altitude the Mooney takes longer to get to final speed.