A64Pilot

There is also this Lycoming SB which I woud never not comply with, because doing so negatively impacts safety, and it requires disassembly of the connecting rods, removal from the crank, which you said you didn’t have done. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Mandatory Parts Replacement at Overhaul and During Repair or Maintenance.pdf A copy of the last sentence of that SB “Carry out the dimensional inspections in accordance with measurements and tolerances as listed in “Table of Limits” (SSP­1776) for all parts approved for use.” ssp1776 https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SSP-1776-5 Table of Limits - Complete.pdf

A mechanic has to determine the airworthiness of the parts they install, often that's paperwork, quite often it’s a visual inspection, and quite often it means measuring if that’s what it takes. It goes like this, you see a part that looks worn, how do you tell if it’s within limits? You measure it.

You should be able to verify the master switch and the voltage regulator etc by measuring the voltage at the field terminal on the alternator itself. ‘If you have a good steady field voltage with the engine running, then the master switch and VR etc and all wiring and connections are doing their thing, if it’s fluctuating, then you have a problem. I connected a long wire with a alligator clip and ran it back through the little window on the pilots side, so no body was up there near the prop.

I’ve removed and cleaned all the connectors on the alternator, and the battery too of course, everything but the field CB, as it appears to be a nightmare to get to. ‘I assume you get to it by removing the glare shield, but I haven’t looked to see what kind of job that will be either ‘I believe the alt was replaced when the engine was overhauled, which was about 400 hours ago, and I think I’ve determined it to be good.

An IA won’t or wouldn’t get involved except during the Annual, unless the A&P is also an IA. Read the article I linked to, as the owner / producer you need to make that write up in the logbook that is in the article. Again with the opinion, but in my opinion as an A&P with that logbook entry it’s not my job to determine if you really produced the part or not, your signing a legal document that you did, and in my opinion at that point my job is to ensure the airworthiness of the part, not it’s origin. ‘You covered the origin question with the logbook entry. ‘Just don’t come to me with a box of donuts telling me there is no paper work because you made them yourself. I can’t “buy off” the parts that way.

This explains a owner produced part pretty well.’ https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10387511/owner-produced-parts-how-they-affect-maintenance There is no way your making something already manufactured, in serial production and stocked for sale, an owner produced part. An owner produced part is forbidden to be sold, and these clearly are for sale. Maybe you could by taking a standard part or even a different aircraft part and having it modified. ‘You guys can of course do as you please, but I wouldn't try calling this an owner produced part, I’d try something else. Now in my opinion , not that my opinion means anything, but I bet an FAA inspector so long as you didn’t get all know it all on him, would be far more likely to look the other way on the Mite parts. ‘Why? because the factory or any other FAA approved part simply doesn’t exist, you have no other choice, other than trying to cook some donuts up in your kitchen, the safest thing is the South African parts. On the Klixon CB’s that didn’t have certs, I’d use them, I’d call them standard parts as I believe they are. Unless Mooney’s Klixon CB’s we’re built to a different spec than the standard ones,which surely they weren’t, but if they were then that would make them non standard

Buying fuel and lunch doesn’t even come close to paying for the airplane, FAA isn’t going to give you any grief for that. ‘You get into trouble by flying a plane load of people every Friday and return every Sunday down to Biloxi for example, and say they are sharing expenses. I know someone that does that in a Baron, FAA sort of jokingly calls them 134 & 1/2 operations, but unless there is a complaint they rarely pursue them. But if you add up the ownership expenses of owning an airplane fuel and lunch most likely fall below 50% , and that’s pretty easy to defend as sharing expenses. However there was this case maybe 15 years or so ago where someone accepted like $20 for a Stearman ride, hit wires, pax died and he ended up in prison, based largely on accepting the $20. Pax wanted to help pay the gas bill. ‘Anyone remember that? Found it, but it wasn’t $20 it was $8 and there is more to the story, as one charge gave precedence to others https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/july/01/after-the-accident

There have always been transportation choices for the Uber wealthy, Check what a Pan Am clipper ticket cost, or a Zeppelin. By comparison the Concorde was a bargain. There certainly won’t be SST for the masses in my lifetime or my children I don’t believe, but I am sort of surprised it’s not already here for the Billionaires of the world. ‘The energy expenditure to go that fast is just enormous.

It’s been about 15 years ago at Sun-N-Fun, I saw a 172 taxing at pretty high power in some of the rough stuff, dropped the nose gear into some kind of hole and dirt flew everywhere.engine of course came to a sudden stop. ‘Well I started to walk over to give him the bad news and ask if there was anything I could do, but before I got there five or six helpers showed up, pushed it out of the hole, he cranked it up and off he went. ‘I figured it was a rental

Are most gear ups from forgetting to put them down? If so then how frequently are they mechanical failure as in won’t go down? I assume some collapses are due to hard landings etc? Trying to get a sense of how often it’s a broken airplane as opposed to pilot error. ‘Coming from a C-210 as my last complex airplane, it was often the airplanes fault, at least to some extent.

Makes sense, I may quit for the day, but just went out and ran it up with a wire connected directly to the field terminal on the Alt to measure voltage, after startup when it was fluctuating, voltage was so whacked out the Fluke couldn’t even measure it, actually it measured a widely variable AC current, later after it settled down it measured a steady DC voltage that would decrease with RPM and increase with load (pitot heat). Which is about what I’d expect and voltage was roughly about 5 VDC. So hopefully that’s telling me that it’s not the alt, it’s either the VR of I’m feeding the VR unstable power. Just about every trouble shooting tree I’ve read goes there, high resistance connection to the VR and the VR getting unstable voltsge. ‘I’ll measure voltage at the cannon plug tomorrow and I may jumper the field CB by taking current from the cigar lighter and inputting it into the spade connector past the Master switch. I’m pretty confident that it’s not the Master so I may not bypass it.

This is my VR https://baspartsales.com/vr415f-alt-880016-501-mooney-m20j-lamar-voltage-regulator-volts-14/

OK figured the silver box was a noise filter, thanks I found the VR, actually pretty easy to get to, it’s a gold colored box but pretty sure it is not a Zeftronics or not a Zef branded box anyway. It’s mounted under a shelf right beside of the nose wheel well on the pax side. black plastic cannon plug, disconnected and cleaned the contacts, no effect. four wires, red, black etc. Identical female cannon plug unused right beside of it, three wires to it, have no idea what it’s for. ‘So I’m real sure the Master switch side of the house isn’t it, unless somehow there is a bad female spade connector, never seen that, it’s possible but unlikely? I’ve disconnected and cleaned all connections to the alternator, all terminals appear good and secure. It could be i guess an alt field CB, but voltage at the master matched bus voltage, so that ought to rule that out. Off to do some reading at the Zef site, been several years, can’t hurt.

So what your saying I believe is that the alt field CB is not the alt field wire, but is really the VR power supply? Power from master goes through the alt field CB to power the VR?

Running the field wire through the Master sort of makes sense to me. The reason is, if I understand an alternator, disconnecting the battery from a running alternator can cause damage because suddenly the load is removed, and an alternator may could continue to be excited by its own output I guess, of course an alternator unlike a generator uses an electromagnet to form the magnetic field so that you can generate electricity, so it has to have a source of electricity in order to make electricity, but once going can it use the power it’s making to keep the magnetic field alive? I assume it could, if it could then the only way to kill it is to remove that field current, so killing the field current the instant the battery is disconnected seems smart. But, it appears my Master just supplies power to the VR, so how is that logical? My field wire in the engine compt is also shielded, so I assume it is all the way to the VR, but haven’t looked yet. ‘So why is the field wire shielded?

I can sort of confirm that, on run up a little while ago the voltage at the switch followed bus voltage exactly, so it’s not field voltage. I don’t understand the logic of a DPDT switch though for a master with one half of the switch for VR power. Anytime the Master is on, the VR receives power, any time the switch is off, it doesn’t, you cannot operate one half of the switch. So why not connect the VR directly to the bus? Nothing would change, anytime the Master is on, it’s powered, any time it’s off, it’s not, same function. VR is voltage regulator

Yes, but a amp meter is actually a volt meter, one that measures tiny voltage changes across a very slight known resistance, so it’s normal to see voltage fluctuations in a amp meter. ‘Plus as voltage changes the amps into and out of a battery will change, because voltage is the “pressure” that pushes current into a battery. ‘Our Amp meters don’t measure load or I don’t believe they do, they only measure current into and from the battery. this is why they read zero on a fully charged battery and a electrical system under a steady load. To measure load, you need a shunt connected to the alternator output.

Does anyone know if the wiring on the backside of the Master supplies power to the VR, or is it the field wire coming from the VR on its way to the Alternator? It matters because if it’s just power to the VR, then it ought to remain steady, but if it’s the field current, then I’d expect to see a lower voltage, one that would change with electrical load. In truth I can’t figure a logical reason to run power through the Master, but maybe a reason to run the field current through the Master, on an alternator system disconnecting the battery can cause damage to an alternator, so maybe it’s field current to protect the alternator if the master is turned off with the engine is running? See I measured 11.8V at the Master and 10 something at the alternator, if the field current is run through the master, then I have a high resistance between the Master and the Alternator

Amps can’t fluctuate without a corresponding voltage fluctuation. In theory if you had a large amp draw and a super fast voltage regulator they could but in reality no VR can respond that fast. ‘So one of these possible things is going on, well several actually, but either the amperage is fluctuating widely and the volt meter isn’t showing it, or everything is good and your meter is swinging from either an outside influence like a vibration that happens to correspond to the needles natural frequency, or something wrong with the meter or it’s contacts. ‘My bet is the voltage is actually fluctuating but your voltmeter isn’t showing it, most digital instrumentation has a lag or an averaging or “smoothing” to keep the display from constantly changing, even important turbine isntruments, Piper has what they call a snap function that when the meter is close. it snaps to the set reading and won’t change until it gets a set amount away, pilots like seeing dead nuts steady readings,so manufacturers give them what they want to see. Electronics International calls it smoothing I believe and a good example would be fuel level, you don’t want to see your fuel gauges swinging wildly when taxing, so they don’t. Get an old fashioned needle voltmeter and connect it and see, they aren’t usually excessively dampened so if there is a fast voltage change, the needle will swing. ‘I bet you will find it swinging.

Be careful, just buying something does not make it an owner produced part. The intent of an owner produced part is for parts that are no longer available and the owner does some research and maybe finds the print for a part that outlines materials and dimensions etc and takes these drawing to a machinist or similar and has the part produced or produces it themselves. However the FAR doesn’t stipulate that the part is no longer available. ‘Merely purchasing the part doesn’t cut the mustard, you would have at least needed to supply the dourometer of the elastomer or dimensions or something. My prediction is that this will get the attention of the FAA unapproved parts program https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/

Good to hear that a Zeftronics will fit / work, STC’d etc, I put one in the C-210 years ago, I’m familiar with the little gold box.

Thanks I’ll look there, I suppose it’s out so that it can be seen and not behind a panel etc? I think I’m done for the day, it’s awful hot in the hanger.

I’ve not, but the lights dim to the gauge and you can hear it in the intercom as well. So it’s real unfortunately. The amps sweep with the volts too, which of course they would have to if the voltage is changing. Engine off, I have 11.8V at both sides of the switch and 10.48 at the field connection at the alternator. ‘I assume the drop is normal going through the voltage regulator? I guess maybe I need to wire the alternator so that I can see if the field voltage is fluctuating in flight, that should tell me it’s not the alt anyway. ‘I removed and cleaned all the connections on the alt, the output seemed loose, but who knows? It’s so rhythmic as in steady rate that well I don’t know. Parts manual seemed to indicate a shelf, so maybe it’s the shelf one

I have the fluctuating voltage issue that sounds identical to the problem many have had that is either the Master switch, or corroded spade connectors on the switch. ‘I first cleaned the spade connectors and Voila it seemed to fix it, but soon returned, but as it’s an intermittent issue maybe cleaning did nothing. So I next tried contact cleaner in the switch itself, no resolution. So I figured it’s the switch itself, but before spending $250 I temporarily disconnected the alternator wires from the master and connected them to a regular toggle switch, same issue it still pulsates sometimes, so I’m pretty sure it’s not the Master switch ‘By the way, where is the voltage regulator on this aircraft? What is the function of the silver box connected to the alternator output, mounted just behind the alternator? I assume some kind of noise suppressor? Like most A&P’s I’m more of a mechanic than an electrician Brief search in the forum only turned up the switch issue and I believe one alternator with worn brushes. 81 J model

I seriously can’t believe you guys think it’s legal to disassemble and reassemble and engine without inspecting anything, with the obvious intent of reassembly with out of spec components, because you don’t want to pay for airworthy parts. There can only be one reason you guys seem so adamant to not have the parts inspected. By the way, all Frankie did was issue an export COA when handed a set of logbooks that declared the aircraft as airworthy. In other words, he didn’t inspect the “parts”, which is pretty much what you guys are saying is legal.