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$500 for Aero-Comfort...Awesome looking yokes. I am saving my pennies and wrapping with tennis grip 'cause they are "nice", but there is "do it yourself" and...Awesome. I choose awesome.

Pilots, Here it come so put on your thick skin and pull your head out! Who the heck do you think is fighting for GA (AND YOU) on the hill? What have YOU done to support GA? Does not a large portion of your own livelyhood depend upon a vibrant aviation economy? How many times have you personally engaged your elected representatives and/or organized community outreach in your area? I'm glad AOPA, working with other industry partners like AOPA and NBAA, is able to effectively represent us and take to the podium in my place. For all you guys who will join an organization for the free hat you are sorely misguided and narrow-minded. I would much rather they spend my money effectively advocating and articulating issues and promoting aviation safety then give me a free hat. User fees, increasing homeland security harassment, airport access, medical reform, a dwindling pilot population, and streamlining aircraft/avionics certification processes are all very real issues. I am a pilot and always will be. I will pay my dues to the organization supporting my right to fly and I will always be actively engaged. Supporting like-minded aviation organizations is as essential as maintaining basic flight proficiency. I do NOT want to see the European GA system on our shores! Choice is yours, but when its time for me to fly west and they pull my wallet from my cold, dead body you can bet your ass that tucked behind my pilot's license will be a current EAA and AOPA membership card! FLY ON!

I'm going with the Gus Grissom defense: "the hatch just blew!" Either that, or he tried landing with speedbrakes out.

Came back from Daytona Beach yesterday up to wonderful frozen MN. Ended up flying about 9 hours and going though MS, then north to get around the front that crossed the whole US. Consequently I ended up getting to Rochester MN just before 11PM, and had my share of trouble. Was cruising at 10K full speed ahead 2700rpm, indicating about 145kts- so 160-162kts true and upon reaching Southern Iowa the temps were -27C, then over Central Iowa -35C, Northern IA -38C and thats when the fun started. Oil temp went from 163 to 220 in about 7 mins. I guess the 20w-50w phillips oil was no match for a super cold oil cooler. I removed the homemade air flow restrictor I made to block about 1/2 of the air going into the cooler before my trip to the south because when cruising at 10K the temps have to be colder than 3C or the oil temps start working there way up to 210 and given I was going to be in a warmer climate for part of the trip I elected to delete it. The only reason I made a oil cooler airflow restrictor is to keep temps warmer than 163F to burn of moisture, not to keep a oil cooler from freezing. I made a stop in Columbia MO for fuel and it was 13f and gusting 30kts and dark so I didn't "feel" like freezing my hands to install it. I should have. I will admit I was kinda chuckling about the recent thread about how cold of temps to fly in and thought people were being over cautious, but looking and considering the following I now would not have made the flight. I continue to become more conservative with decision making. -Any mechanical failures that would have created the need to land off airport could have been deadly. -40 windchills. (especially given one of the pax only had a sweatshirt DUMB) -If a heater hose would have come off the windows would have immediately frosted over making landing difficult. -autopilot had hard time controlling pitch due to stiff trim wheels. Remember all that gear is in the back of the plane where its cold. -fuel could have froze,I pulled the gasolator pin about every 15 Mins as a precaution. -Conditions on the ground were 1-2miles vis due to gusty winds blowing snow. All in all my attitude has changed about winter flight. -25C is now my cut off. Here are some pics---the JPI is just before the cooler froze.

Oh and for the cardinal sin of Mooney ownership....it sat outside :-(

Engine was OH in 91, installed in 2001. (I may be a year or two off with those years,but you get the idea). Prop has the 100 AD. Panel is still shotgun. Cowl Mod looks like it was installed in the last few years (some 2012 photos I found of it showed it unpainted). However, if you look closely there is a lip between the spinner and the cowl deck. It didn't look right to me so I fwded to swta. They said it was either the engine mounts sagging or the install was shotty as they had no record of doing it. I'm not sure which way to lean on that considering the screws aren't even near the front of the cowl. I put a value on the plane of about $30k(even learning to the low side of that number) but Alan will not take $1 less than $35, so my search continues...

Chris, I put the Stec service manual in the download section of MS a few months back that may help.

He may own Hawaii

your Eagle should have all the hardware needed for the upgrade. It will only require the System 55x and a new turn co ordinator plus the rewiring. I would strongly suggest you contact Mooney for the 830084 drawings. With this package you do not need the STC from S-Tec to make it legal. You will need to have the computer modified for the Mooney however. contact me offline for more info, I am doing the same upgrade.

What's political about Richard Branson?

On any site, there will always be those who are so obsessed with their opinions that they not only want to express them, they want to censor yours. Start any thread you choose, with whatever opening question/opinion you wish. The only right another member has to censor you is to simply ignore the thread. When I suggested starting a forum on Bravos, several members objected. Of course the forum became a popular place for Bravo owners and a very convenient place for them to look for information. Some members are just pissed that I didn't get their permission first. A pilot community is just like any other community. After being a member of the pilot community for 53 years, since age 11, I recognize just how reflective it is of the population. There is nothing special about pilots, IMO. There are good, bad, smart, and stupid; arrogant, gracious, selfish, and generous. If you adhere to every negative response, they will shut you out; which is exactly what they would like. Then, there would only be room for their opinion. Post any question you like and ignore the trash that sits on the bottom. And remember that the anonymity of this site, a bad thing, always attracts the coward, looking for a cheap shot. Jgreen

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Dave. However, I'm going to take a deep breath and be a little more diplomatic even if I don't really want to. Whether you like AOPA or disagree with "some" of their positions and efforts, folks, they are just about all we have. Admittedly, the EAA is a force as well, I just find them even more irritating than AOPA. The one position of AOPA that really bothers me is the support for the big corporations to opt out of flight reporting, i.e.flightaware. Basic AOPA membership cost $45 a year. When I fire up the Aerostar, taxi out and climb out, I've spent $45 in fuel before I level off at 5,000'. In your Mooney, you could probably climb to five thousand and fly what, 50 miles? PLEASE SOME IDIOT DON'T NIT PIC THOSE NUMBERS. The point is, they are the "most" effective GA advocate and the cost is NOTHING. Like it or not, two things effect legislation of any kind; votes and money. Politicians care about nothing else. A voting bloc, any voting bloc, is the only way to have any say in what regulations and legislation are passed affecting GA. I'll make an unusual comparison here. Our local private golf club struggled for years financially. There was always a significant number of members who opposed any reasonable increase in dues. A ten year old idiot could count the numbers and see that, at some point, bankruptcy was imminent. Did that stop them? NO. Some were quite "well to do". They just wanted to bitch and put the burden on anyone but themselves. The club went broke, of course, and those people were the first ones wringing their hands and asking why. Two questions. If you can't afford $45, what the hell are you doing pretending that you can afford an airplane? You're just a broke ass "wanna be". Secondly, if not AOPA, please tell me how you are going to make any difference in promoting or protecting GA? I truly would love to hear a sensible response to those questions. Jgreen

For those of you interested in the new Bendix King 765 & 770 GPS units AND own an iPad, BK has put a free trainer app on the App Store.

Apparently the pilot was seen pulling the airplane out of the hangar by the prop. This was the result.

Its not so complicted from a pilots Its complicated from an engineer's perspective, but not so complicated from a pilot's perspective. That Van's article is written for the homebuilder/homemade engineers. It reminds that flutter depends on TAS not on IAS. So that must be considered when flying high. Flutter is especially dangerous for gliders that fly in the mid to upper 20's, since flutter is also especially likely to strike long thin wings like on a glider. If you are not flying experimental, but you are flying certified, its easy. Fly within the certified envelope. The certification process is (supposed to be anyway) designed to present safe margins including no flutter. So if my airplane is certified to 196IAS at 24,000, then that corresponds to a TAS which will be free from flutter (and is it a safety margin further than 1.3 times that? I always forget that constant). That's for the flight test engineers to worry about. For the operating pilot - stay below certified Vne and within certified ceiling and you will be fine. There is no need to know how much faster or higher you can go since we will not go there. Now if you are a homebuilder making your own design, you are both flight test engineer and test pilot.

Tom try setting the mooneyspace.com site in compatibility mode of IE explorer. Should fix it, till Microsoft busts it with a new release, oh wait, they are busy fixing heathcare.gov site. Microsoft hired to fix bugs, does anyone other than me find this humorous?

Doesn't slip like a Cub or Champ but my C does a pretty good job when needed.

Actually its a little more complicated than that , I read a ten or 12 page article explaining speeds and flutter , and you seriously would need an engineering and math degree to begin to comprehend it .... I just don't approach the red line in any plane........

Exhaust system leaks are more critical on Ms... Glad the monitor gave good direction! It worked so well we didn't get a chance to group think the problem through with a dozen misguided approaches to the solution. Best regards, -a-

RJBrown said "…Because of the safety record Mooney is the only product I would consider. Bonanza Malibu and Saratoga have all shown a propensity to shed tails…." I tease Bonanza owners by pointing out that if they lose control in the clouds, their airplane will come apart, whereas if we lose control in IMC our Mooney aircraft will impact with the airframe intact...

Not true; flutter is a function of TAS

I'm sure my own stick and rudder skills are still evolving, but my airspeed needle is far from rock solid as I balance the rate of descent against my velocity, with reference to my position and worrying a little about how steep my bank angle is between base and final. I personally allow a hefty speed margin for that last turn, as I'm pretty sure it'd be a short drop into the woods below if my high-performance wing should stall. I imagine that the airspeed indicator would be telling me all I needed to know IF I first knew exactly what the stall speed is on each turn I make on approach with more or less fuel on one side that the other (never the same way twice), different (each time I fly) weight distributed differently longitudinally through the aircraft, wind coming from God-knows-what angle and velocity and changing with altitude, bank angle changing constantly as I micro-adjust to line up just so, and the yoke moving back and forth in a vain attempt to keep everything steady . . . but it's never quite that clean here in Oklahoma. So in fact, I am never really sure, within five knots, of how close I am to a stall. BUT, with an AOA-measuring device, I don't need to know any of that stuff to know how close I am to being in trouble. It's only measuring one thing, and the thing it's measuring tells me how close I am to a stall in simple analog terms. For this reason, the AOA-indicator is the next thing I intend to add to my airplane. First, it was the shoulder harnesses, second it was the JPI 700. (If I were doing it again, I would have added the AOA indicator before the JPI, since it's a safety thing, and the JPI just helps me run things more efficiently and knowledegably.) So if there's going to be a group deal (Lord knows I'm cheap . . .), count me in.

Looks like the result of a dangerous no flaps landing

Let me see if I can tackle this from my perspective. Starting a new thread on the same topic just makes it harder to find stuff later (ex. What thread did I read that?) and most of the time the information is duplicated in both threads. Hence why someone asked why you were starting a new thread on the same subject. As for AOPA general aviation advocacy, for me personally, when Phil Boyer started flying around in a Citation, they started losing me. Not that they weren't still advocates for GA, but the message was diluted with all that jet fuel in the air. For the third class medical proposal, it was a joint effort from AOPA and the EAA: http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Regulatory-,-a-,-Certification-Policy/AOPA-EAA-Medical-Exemption-FAQ/AOPA-EAA-3rd-Class-Medical-Exemption.aspx The fuel situation has been one of AOPA's causes for years. Until Shell's recent announcements, it has been talked about and never resolved in the 23 years I was a member. Just because you advocate for something does mean you can make it happen. The fuel manufacturers and their ability to continue a revenue stream have a much more significant impact on that outcome. When you are an advocacy group, you have two primary responsibilities -- to your cause and to the people you serve. For me personally, I just don't feel they are the same organization they were 30 years ago. "Long timers" as you call us, are not jaded. We just have heard and see more of "it". The reality of aviation today is that it is still an expensive endeavor. I am personally helping a 40 year old get into aviation. Although I am not an instructor, I have been letting him fly with me, teaching him what I can and making myself available to answer his questions. His reality is that he wants to be a pilot, but doesn't have the money to pay for his private license. How do you fix that? Or take my kids. I have offered them both to pay their way through training. No interest. Why? It's not in their blood despite flying with me for years. I don't think you have offended anyone. Most of us are just a bunch of cranky old farts, who are VERY opinionated and share a love for aviation and more importantly, our Mooneys...

OK I got spanked for starting a new line on this subject. And as a newbie to mooney space I guess I need to learn how you guys like to play. Just reading mooney flyer and I see where legislation has been introduced in congress to reduce the requirements on the 3rd class. What organization do you think may have been responsible for that. Oh and who do you think has been keeping the EPA and air resources board from eliminating our precious fuel. The way I see it if you don't like the way things are going you can take your jacks and go home or you can stay in the game and complain get involved and be a part for changing things. I'm sure most of you guys are not the quitting type and a lot have been advocates for change within AOPA and other pilot associations. I have great respect for pilots and have made friends with some in my area but hear is an observation I have made. It seems as a new pilot 4 years I have the enthusiasm of a young kid but I see a kind of jaded perspective of many of the long timers. Every one seems to agree That aviation needs lots of new blood but if you aren't willing to welcome that new blood then perhaps that is part of the problem. I speak mainly of pilots I have met and come to know personally. I hope I haven't offended anyone cause I really like mooney space and I know I will learn lots from all of you.

Byron, 19.X is acceptable and remember that the RSA system is a very goo MASS AIRFLOW device, so when you depart with a DA of say 1500' it has already accounted for that. If it was a DA of '0' it would flow more. You can change jets on the Carbs and you can change the flow of the fuel servo, however you need the gear to do it and this is best done by a shop with the shims the data and a flow bench set up to do it. Recently I have seen some AVSTAR fuel servo's on new engines (not the Precision Airmotive) and they have not been flowing the correct flows. Go figure! As Brian has calculated above a good BSFC is around 0.58-0.59 and at a DA of sea level on an ISA day, that gets you the fuel flows mentioned in this thread, the mid 19's and 17's for the 180HP. Brian, I am perplexed as to why you say all you will get is 90%. I regularly get 98-102% and it is all based on DA of course. Today it is 41dC where I am so I would not expect anywhere near that

Starting procedures sound good, wondering if you have an induction leak that seats it's self after the engine is running for a few min...

Thanks for the story! Don't ever hesitate to tell ATC unable so that you can slow things down. They can move a jet or two so that you can get in. And also if you start picking up ice, tell ATC that you're picking up ice (along with type & intensity so they can give a PIREP) and you do not have ice equipment! This should let them know to let you do what you need to get safely on the ground. I've told ATC unable a few times. It's one thing to be in a heated building on the ground with screens, it's another to be in a cockpit with lots of stress going 150kts!

Agreed. Except that you don't need to think if you want an instrument rating. You don't buy a Mooney if (at least eventually) this isn't the goal. I got away with an entire year of VFR only flying (while instrument training) when I just got my 201. However, since then, I've been flying so far away that most of these flights would be impossible without some IFR. Also you don't come close to using your Mooney's potential without being IFR capable.

AOPA is a terrible organization, but it's the best we have for general aviation. Perhaps if the membership was more vocal and more demanding, AOPA would be better than it is. Unfortunately, I'm a prime example of someone who does little or nothing for general aviation, then complains that AOPA doesn't do a very good job. How much committment does $45/year represent? EAA is okay, but its focus is the experimental segment of general aviation. General aviation is under attack from many directions. If AOPA slows the opposition at all, it's worth the dues.

Flew through a rainbow. Been shitting Skittles ever since.

Agree with you RJBrown. Save pay cash is best way to go. I might buy a less expensive plane for cash like a Mooney 201J after getting checked out in the 20F if I like it.