Getting an upgrade

[Bob_Belville]

Bob, just curious, having the GTN-750 why would you need an iPad on the copilot side? Not enough enchilada?

 

José

José, I don't own an IPad, that's a Garmin GPS 696. It is integrated into the 750 flight plan. At the moment I have Garmin subscriptions for both GPS including charts. I may drop charts from 750. I had XM weather on 696 both dropped it when I got the GDL 88. The 696 is a fine backup with lots of capability. (I had it before I did the new panel, don't know if I would have bought it if I already had the rest but I use it for check lists and reference material.)

[Alan Fox]

I would be interested in purchasing the take outs...

[Bob_Belville]

Bob, is that leg distance to waypoint or DME distance?  Reason I ask is because the large jets all show leg distance, IE, distance to all the waypoints in the flight plan first, and if there is a vector break in there (such as in a STAR), that distance goes blank. Get a shortcut to the marker and all of a sudden you are sky-high.  DME distance to destination always shows how far you are, right now, to the DME station. Even the 747-400 still has dual ADF and DME for this reason.

Byron, I am displaying distance to next waypoint in flight plan and distance to destination which would be flight plan distance, not dir (DME). That info is readily available if needed. There's a waypoint screen which I've never needed to use that with a touch or two can get you anything your heart desires. The flight plan screen shows the length of each leg in the fp and the "running total." If ATC gives me a change, say cut the corner to the 2nd wp in my plan, I can quickly display the fp, select the wp, and hit the dir key to immediately bypass the unneeded fix. 

 

Bottom line, I can't imagine that the 750, if it is operating, can't get you any info the DME does. (My flying goes back to the 60s and I have shot more than a few NDB approaches into KMRN and other airports where that was all we had.) I added a DME and an RNAV to my old Mooney when that technology became available. We thought we were in hog heaven. We could file and fly DIR DEST!  (I never flew A-N range.) But what we have now makes those great advances seem like the Data General mini computer that was once so wonderful.

[Bob_Belville]

I'm thinking that I bought my beautiful 68C with 2800TT, 550SMOH, paint 10 years old but always hangared, Garmin GPS IFR certified, Kx155, poor man's a/p, etc for only $1.5K more than the cost of this upgrade.

I bought a nice '66E with many 201 mods, 2700 TTNSN, 600 SFRM for 50+ AMU Feb 2012. After fine wire plugs, a PowerFlow exhaust and a new interior, I completely redid the panel for another 50+ AMU. ISTM these are two different issues. I have no intention of selling but if my widow does she should have plenty of folks interested. 

 

I am glad to see folks like Stefan joining Bennett, me and several others who think our older Mooneys are worth modernizing.

[Bob_Belville]

I would also ask about GPSS autopilot functionality. The GTN is capable of sending out data to be used for GPSS. Are you familiar with how GPSS works?

I'd second Marauder's comment about GPSS. This is the greatest thing since sliced bread and you need to be sure you understand it before doing so much good stuff and not getting the full benefit. It looks to me like an Aspen would fit nicely in place of your HSI and AI. And don't forget to add to the calculation the sale of removed components. I sold stuff to MAPA folks and what was left on EBAY getting quite a bit more than the trade-in offered. I suppose your HSI is valuable. I also suppose it is expensive to repair.

[Bennett]

A few fast comments. I use an Icarus SAM unit between the GTN 750 and the KAP 150 autopilot for true GPSS steering. Works wonderfully!

I went back and forth about using a switch to allow my second NAV/Com to drive the autopilot, and decided that the additional wiring (autopilot and SAM) added another potential failure point. I do not have a switch. My GTN 750 drives the autopilot via SAM, and my GTN 650 provides data to a King VOR head with glide slope. I can always hand fly an ILS, or VOR approach if there is an autopilot problem, or a failure in the GTN 750. For what it is worth, in normal flight I use the GTN 750 for GPS routing and display, and the GTN. 650 set to on route VORs (as back-up).

I can hear the laughter now, but I am truly lucky to have the resources for this crazy panel, and moreover I am having fun setting all this up. May not need it, but great to have.

[Marauder]

I can hear the laughter now, but I am truly lucky to have the resources for this crazy panel, and moreover I am having fun setting all this up. May not need it, but great to have.

Won't hear any laughter from me! You only live once! Stefan -- there are a number of us who went though this process, just let us know where you're headed and we'll help as much as we can.

[romair]

Thanks everybody for y'alls help. As I initially mentioned I am fairly new in the world of avionics, and I am trying to make an informed decision. Currently VFR pilot (PPL about 1 yr now), and I want to start training for IFR. It seems logical to me to upgrade my panel before starting the IFR training (as you can see , I don't even have any kind of GPS in my panel currently). It appears that the general opinion is that an Aspen would also be a great addition. I wasn't to familiar with GPSS steering either, but that seems to be a great add on as well. Just doing some quick browsing on the internet, it looks like an Icarus SAM unit that Bennett has goes for about $2300 plus install, while a PFD Aspen is about 10,000 plus install (but I would be able to sell the HSI). 

There is another great point of Oshkosh coming up soon, and probably there will be some discounts with that. It may be the smart thing to wait until then (same some extra money), and add to the upgrade the Aspen as well, together with the GMA 350. It may be that being patient for 6 weeks could possibly save me 2-3k.

One other thing that I wanted to ask - what do you guys think is a fair premium to pay for having an avionics shop close by do the work? I had some work done previously on my AP somewhere that was not close, and of course there were squaks to be fixed afterwards, and each time I had to take the plane in, I needed somebody else to fly another plane to come get me. True pain in the behind, not to mention expensive. Judging from the responses here, it seems that I am quoted about 3-4k more than what you guys paid. It seems somewhat excessive, so I am thinking of talking to some other shops as well. I emailed Avionics Unlimited in Conroe,Texas, as they seemed to be well regarded. Any other recommendations for DFW area?

Thanks

Stefan

[Marauder]

Thanks everybody for y'alls help. As I initially mentioned I am fairly new in the world of avionics, and I am trying to make an informed decision. Currently VFR pilot (PPL about 1 yr now), and I want to start training for IFR. It seems logical to me to upgrade my panel before starting the IFR training (as you can see , I don't even have any kind of GPS in my panel currently). It appears that the general opinion is that an Aspen would also be a great addition. I wasn't to familiar with GPSS steering either, but that seems to be a great add on as well. Just doing some quick browsing on the internet, it looks like an Icarus SAM unit that Bennett has goes for about $2300 plus install, while a PFD Aspen is about 10,000 plus install (but I would be able to sell the HSI). 

There is another great point of Oshkosh coming up soon, and probably there will be some discounts with that. It may be the smart thing to wait until then (same some extra money), and add to the upgrade the Aspen as well, together with the GMA 350. It may be that being patient for 6 weeks could possibly save me 2-3k.

One other thing that I wanted to ask - what do you guys think is a fair premium to pay for having an avionics shop close by do the work? I had some work done previously on my AP somewhere that was not close, and of course there were squaks to be fixed afterwards, and each time I had to take the plane in, I needed somebody else to fly another plane to come get me. True pain in the behind, not to mention expensive. Judging from the responses here, it seems that I am quoted about 3-4k more than what you guys paid. It seems somewhat excessive, so I am thinking of talking to some other shops as well. I emailed Avionics Unlimited in Conroe,Texas, as they seemed to be well regarded. Any other recommendations for DFW area?

Thanks

Stefan

 

 

Hi Stefan! You are laying out a good chunk of change and I think you should shop around a bit once you understand what you want. A local shop would be easier for doing upgrades, but based on the numbers you have provided, they seem to be on the high side, not to mention I don't think they are giving you all of the options available. I flew IFR for 20 years using the hardware you have currently. I think what you are doing is the right thing by looking to upgrade. I was always limited where I could fly because if it didn't have an ILS, VOR or NDB approach and it was IMC, I couldn't go there. 

 

I thought I had done a ton of research prior to my upgrade but still learned additional things as it was going on (like the flight director option). Where you need to start is to know exactly how much money are you willing to invest. If it is deep, i would try to get as much upgraded now since opening up the panel will cost you again for installation later. At a minimum, I would look at a GTN. Which one depends on again on how much you want to spend now. I looked hard at the 750 and found that a second Aspen made more sense for the future when I upgraded for ADSB compliance. I want to be looking at traffic and weather directly in front of me, instead of glancing over to the navigator. Quite honestly, with the 650 in the panel, I only look at it to modify the flight plan, change frequencies or hit the CDI or OBS buttons. 

 

Don't under estimate the value of the GPSS either. As a few of us mentioned, it really changed the dynamics of how your autopilot will work. And as I mentioned, we are coming into rebate season. Last year, I think Garmin offered $750 on each GTN and Aspen had a $1,000 rebate on each unit. It adds up...

 

 

 

 

 

[BigTex]

Stafen - Give Trevor Smith Tech Aero Avionics a call.  He's located at Denton's airport (KDTO) and he does great work.  He's very well respected and is known for quality work.  His contact information is: 940-387-6637, trevor@techaeroavionics.com

http://www.techaeroavionics.com/index.html

[rainman]

Stefan, consider Crystal Avionics in New Braunfels (KBAZ) good work and good to work with. As a side note, I was informed today that several items from Garmin, including the G500, GTN750, and GTN 650 are on back order from the factory. So check with whomever you select about availability of the components you need. Ray