"M-20 Turbos"

[gwcolwell]

Looking for anyone who has purchased and installed a TN from M-20 turbos.

[M20F-1968]

This will require the installation of a J model cowling onto your F model before the M20-turbo system can be installed.  The J model cowling installation requires cutting back the length of the firewall flange and side panels, the installation of cowl flanges between the firewall and outer skins, installation of a repairstip to cover the old holes, a new cowl deck, conversion of your engine mount to a J model engine mount with the weld-ons for J-model cowl flap operation, new J-model engine baffling, new air box (which is included in the M-20 kit), oil cooler relocation, new J-model spinner and bulkhead, and the cost of a J model cowling, plus the cost of most likely rebuilding it since thay are all 15-20 years old.  I would estimate the cost of the cowling conversion to be $25,000, plus the cost of the M20-Turbo system and installation costs of that system.  Total for all of that would be at least $60,000, most likely in the $70,000 range.

John Breda

[gregwatts]

I once owned a 71 F model with an M20 turbo. Very neat to have......but you may be better off buying a 231. You most likely will never recoup your costs.

[N201MKTurbo]

I have a plane with the conversion, it was installed before I bought the plane.

[gwcolwell]

The subject appears to be mute. Just got an email back from M-20. Business is for sale. Not interested in selling another kit.

[fantom]

They are doing you a favor because rumor has it their quality control is non-existent, and their business sale naivety is reason for blood pressure checks.

 

Bill Sandman is turning over in his grave.

[takair]

This will require the installation of a J model cowling onto your F model before the M20-turbo system can be installed.  The J model cowling installation requires cutting back the length of the firewall flange and side panels, the installation of cowl flanges between the firewall and outer skins, installation of a repairstip to cover the old holes, a new cowl deck, conversion of your engine mount to a J model engine mount with the weld-ons for J-model cowl flap operation, new J-model engine baffling, new air box (which is included in the M-20 kit), oil cooler relocation, new J-model spinner and bulkhead, and the cost of a J model cowling, plus the cost of most likely rebuilding it since thay are all 15-20 years old.  I would estimate the cost of the cowling conversion to be $25,000, plus the cost of the M20-Turbo system and installation costs of that system.  Total for all of that would be at least $60,000, most likely in the $70,000 range.

John Breda

Just curious, did the M20 STC include the paperwork to change the cowl,or was that additional paperwork?

[triple8s]

If a person who owned a "C" was going to install an IO-360FI in place of an O-360 carb would there be lots of paperwork? It is a fwf/airframe combination produced by the factory so one would think it shouldnt be a big deal. The flight testing and all the "experimentation" has been done by the manufacturer so it should be same as installing any other factory produced part. OK, if that is reasonable then why couldnt a person install a TCM TSIO360, (the K Model fwf)? If all the work was done to make it the same as was done at the factory then I dont see what all the hassle is, I really dont, yes I know there would have to be other things moved around battery engine mount ect ect  and a new W&B but to put the TCM on a F or J should be no big deal if it was all done as the factory would do. I did ask the question about the TCM on the front of a short body and that would require more flight testing and such but to install a fwf on an airframe that has been done by the factory just doesnt seem like a big thing to me. Maybe homebuilding has polluted my mind but I see lots of improvements that are out of bounds for us flying certified birds, some of which (like shoulder harness) could very well save lives.

[KSMooniac]

Just curious, did the M20 STC include the paperwork to change the cowl,or was that additional paperwork?

 

No, there is a single line in their instructions that you must convert to a J-configuration cowl on your own before you can install their system.  Either field approval or a long-lost STC that is out in the ether somewhere.

[carusoam]

The same question has been recently asked to put an Aclaim engine on an Ovation... Expensive STC work would be required. Recomended selling what you have and buying what you want. Unfortunately... -a-

[richardheitzman]

If a person who owned a "C" was going to install an IO-360FI in place of an O-360 carb would there be lots of paperwork? It is a fwf/airframe combination produced by the factory so one would think it shouldnt be a big deal. The flight testing and all the "experimentation" has been done by the manufacturer so it should be same as installing any other factory produced part. OK, if that is reasonable then why couldnt a person install a TCM TSIO360, (the K Model fwf)? If all the work was done to make it the same as was done at the factory then I dont see what all the hassle is, I really dont, yes I know there would have to be other things moved around battery engine mount ect ect  and a new W&B but to put the TCM on a F or J should be no big deal if it was all done as the factory would do. I did ask the question about the TCM on the front of a short body and that would require more flight testing and such but to install a fwf on an airframe that has been done by the factory just doesnt seem like a big thing to me. Maybe homebuilding has polluted my mind but I see lots of improvements that are out of bounds for us flying certified birds, some of which (like shoulder harness) could very well save lives.

The reason is that for the fact the aircraft is TYPE CERTIFICATED in a specific configuration, tested and approved with engine, prop, etc. If you want to change the TC, you must either secure a field approval (good luck with that anymore) from your local FSDO based upon certified data, or apply for and receive a STC. You can do whatever you want to your aircraft, the only restriction is time and money. If you want to put a different engine on the aircraft, please do, and spend the money to secure at STC. There are a large amount of aircraft out there with a number of STC's that improve the safety, and you mention shoulder harnesses being one of them. B.A.S.  and Alpha Aviation have numerous STC's for Mooney aircraft to put in a shoulder harness, but owners are unwilling to spend the money.

[triple8s]

Just dropped a wad for panel improvement and next is the shoulder harness. I have thought and thought about trading planes but everytime i go fly I cant see trading. I know i'm not as fast as lots of planes but its hard to lose 172 fuel burn at 150 kt, I dont get the economy of the LOP drivers and wish I had FI cause I would definately be on that side of the table, but these 4cyl Mooneys are very cheap to fly.

[Comatose]

Triple8s, how's your cooling? I also have a C, and used to lust over the LOP operations that I couldn't do. I installed an engine monitor anyway. Turns out, my plane flies very nicely at lower power settings and peak EGT. Sometimes it takes a touch of carb heat. Its become my standard procedure for eastbound flights. 11,500 feet and peak EGT. I get 140 or so knots true that way on about 8gph, smooth, cylinder temps around 370. Add the 25 knots tailwind one usually has that high and it is VERY hard to beat for costs.

[Mcstealth]

The subject appears to be mute. Just got an email back from M-20. Business is for sale. Not interested in selling another kit.

 

Wonder what it would take to buy, and then to make feasible, much less profitable?

[scottfromiowa]

231's are a value if you need/want a turbo  Newer plane and OEM turbo...AND the nose looks way better

[triple8s]

quote Triple8s, how's your cooling? I also have a C, and 

  I really had a problem with cooling and was told several times that my baffle seal was the problem. I have been accused of being hard headed, well, I ordered the rubber and rivets and met the mechanic at the hangar and we replaced the baffle seal and no more heat problems. Anyways I have no heating problems (EGT's or CHT's) my EGT's arent close together enough to run LOP (in my opinion) without carb heat or throttle pulled out atleast halfway. I assume the throttle being out/butterfly being partially closed causes turbulence and a more even distribution of the mixture. I usually run ROP and yes I do and would go LOP if I was able. 

[SkyPilot]

I looked into the turbo mods. Both rayjay (used) and M20. I can buy a lot of avgas for the money I saved not doing it. I'm stuck in the slowlane at 142 kts but I can fly over the Canadian rockies at 14,500' so good enough...

[Alan Fox]

I had read a book , I think Larry Balls , that had mentioned Mooney had started out developing a 4 cyl turbo , and scrapped it because the reliability aspect of the 4 cyl turbo was not even close to the 6 cyl..... I dont think I have seen a turbo 4 cyl from the factory , with the exception of the Twin Commanche (Twinkie) .....Are there any ????

[Ron McBride]

Piper Seminole is the only other Turbo 4 cylinder that I can think of. 1980 and 81 I think. I personally like the TN option and wish I had one in my F. Use it when going high, Don't use it for short local flights. Turbo's cost money to keep the maintanance up. Ron

[The_Wrench]

Any one out there have the flight manual supplement for the M20 turbo normalized STC on a Mooney M20F?

[orionflt]

The reason is that for the fact the aircraft is TYPE CERTIFICATED in a specific configuration, tested and approved with engine, prop, etc. If you want to change the TC, you must either secure a field approval (good luck with that anymore) from your local FSDO based upon certified data, or apply for and receive a STC. You can do whatever you want to your aircraft, the only restriction is time and money. If you want to put a different engine on the aircraft, please do, and spend the money to secure at STC. There are a large amount of aircraft out there with a number of STC's that improve the safety, and you mention shoulder harnesses being one of them. B.A.S.  and Alpha Aviation have numerous STC's for Mooney aircraft to put in a shoulder harness, but owners are unwilling to spend the money.

The installation of shoulder harnesses in the mooney is considered a minor change and does not require an STC for the mod.