1961 M20B - Things to know before buying?

[JackPlek]

Hello all,

Currently on the lookout for a M20C/E/F/J, but fell upon a M20B close to home that seems to fit the bill pretty nicely. Mid-time, basic VFR panel, low useful load. 

Anything I should be on the lookout for, for this model particularly? This would most likely be a stepping stone to something larger in the future, but might provide good practice and testing to see if this is something the family and I enjoy. Would need some upgrades as I want to use the plane to do my Instrument Rating.

Let me have it.

Thanks!

[TangoTango]

According to the link below, it looks like a lot of small changes were made between the B and C, the most substantive of which were made to increase useful load:

Design Changes in Mooney M20C

Make sure it is between serial # 1701 and 1924. Before that are the wooden wing & tail Mooneys that require the requisite experience.

Mooney Model Chronology

I suspect parts availability would be much improved with a C model, but maybe somebody here with B model experience can attest to that.

[47U]

32 minutes ago, JackPlek said:

Would need some upgrades as I want to use the plane to do my Instrument Rating.

Ouch.  Currently a basic VFR platform, but wanting to do IFR training.   It may be that any avionics upgrades, even if installing used equipment, could be challenging to recoup the value when you move on to something larger in a few years.

You might be money ahead by finding an IFR platform to buy as opposed to upgrading this one.  In other respects, there’s nothing wrong with the B model, with @TangoTango perspectives.  Standard pre-buy inspection cautions apply… most notably, corrosion is the biggest risk, in my opinion.

[AndreiC]

I don't remember, are the flaps on the B operated like on the later C model (i.e., hydraulic)? Or is there another Johnson bar?

Most so-called VFR platforms can be used to learn and get a minimal IFR rating -- two VOR heads, one of them with glideslope, is enough to learn to do ILS and VOR approaches (this is how I learned). But an IFR rating these days is almost useless without an LPV capable IFR navigator, so a 430W minimum is needed. But the 430 line is no longer supported by Garmin, so installing a 430W is a money-losing proposition unless you plan to keep the plane for a long time (as said above, most people who buy a B will be doing so as a basic VFR machine to putter around, so would not place much value on having an IFR navigator). Moreover, you mention "family" -- even with two adults plus one kid on board, the extra useful load of a C will be much appreciated, especially as kids grow quicker than you realize.

So I see two ways ahead for you. 1) Buy the B as a low-cost, VFR machine, to time-build, putter around short distances with the family, and do most of an IFR training with very basic tools (learning ILS and VOR approaches in real life, and maybe doing LPV approaches in a simulator). Then, once your mission is more clear, upgrade to a C or higher (if your family will fly with you, most likely an F). 2) Define your mission better now, and buy what you plan to keep for a while.

I personally would recommend option 2, because especially with an older Mooney you will spend a lot of money in the first few years to catch up on maintenance to get the bird to where you want it to be (donuts? fuel tank leaks? magnetos? small panel improvements?), and these costs will be lost when you sell. But I fully understand the itch to buy something now (my first plane was a $15k Cherokee which I then spent another $10k to fix and sold for $15k back again, but I don't regret it a minute). Good luck with your decision. 

[hammdo]

Flaps in the b are fully manual with no hydraulic assist. Lower load, a bit heavier aluminum, 48 gallon tanks, rudder throw is less than c. A VFR B would cost a bit to upgrade for IFR…

-Don

[JackPlek]

54 minutes ago, AndreiC said:

I don't remember, are the flaps on the B operated like on the later C model (i.e., hydraulic)? Or is there another Johnson bar?

Most so-called VFR platforms can be used to learn and get a minimal IFR rating -- two VOR heads, one of them with glideslope, is enough to learn to do ILS and VOR approaches (this is how I learned). But an IFR rating these days is almost useless without an LPV capable IFR navigator, so a 430W minimum is needed. But the 430 line is no longer supported by Garmin, so installing a 430W is a money-losing proposition unless you plan to keep the plane for a long time (as said above, most people who buy a B will be doing so as a basic VFR machine to putter around, so would not place much value on having an IFR navigator). Moreover, you mention "family" -- even with two adults plus one kid on board, the extra useful load of a C will be much appreciated, especially as kids grow quicker than you realize.

So I see two ways ahead for you. 1) Buy the B as a low-cost, VFR machine, to time-build, putter around short distances with the family, and do most of an IFR training with very basic tools (learning ILS and VOR approaches in real life, and maybe doing LPV approaches in a simulator). Then, once your mission is more clear, upgrade to a C or higher (if your family will fly with you, most likely an F). 2) Define your mission better now, and buy what you plan to keep for a while.

I personally would recommend option 2, because especially with an older Mooney you will spend a lot of money in the first few years to catch up on maintenance to get the bird to where you want it to be (donuts? fuel tank leaks? magnetos? small panel improvements?), and these costs will be lost when you sell. But I fully understand the itch to buy something now (my first plane was a $15k Cherokee which I then spent another $10k to fix and sold for $15k back again, but I don't regret it a minute). Good luck with your decision. 

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, really appreciated. 

What you're saying makes a lot of sense. My budget would allow for more plane right now (probably maxing out on an early J model), but since it's my first plane, I'm still unsure of the long-term viability of me owning a plane, especially with the optic of flying with my family (wife and 2 kids, currently 5 and 2). I feel like buying a bit less plane now reduces the risk of regretting the purchase in the short to medium term, but with the IFR restrictions associated with it, I might be painting myself in a corner. My main goal this year is still to get my instrument rating, and if that requires major upgrades that won't translate to sale price down the line, than that's probably not ideal either.

My mission for the next few years would be 90% solo, 400-500NM cross-country flights, with the remaining 10% being with the wife and kids.

The flaps on the B are in fact manual flaps.

Thanks again for your input!

[Shadrach]

53 minutes ago, AndreiC said:

I don't remember, are the flaps on the B operated like on the later C model (i.e., hydraulic)? Or is there another Johnson bar?

Most so-called VFR platforms can be used to learn and get a minimal IFR rating -- two VOR heads, one of them with glideslope, is enough to learn to do ILS and VOR approaches (this is how I learned). But an IFR rating these days is almost useless without an LPV capable IFR navigator, so a 430W minimum is needed. But the 430 line is no longer supported by Garmin, so installing a 430W is a money-losing proposition unless you plan to keep the plane for a long time (as said above, most people who buy a B will be doing so as a basic VFR machine to putter around, so would not place much value on having an IFR navigator). Moreover, you mention "family" -- even with two adults plus one kid on board, the extra useful load of a C will be much appreciated, especially as kids grow quicker than you realize.

So I see two ways ahead for you. 1) Buy the B as a low-cost, VFR machine, to time-build, putter around short distances with the family, and do most of an IFR training with very basic tools (learning ILS and VOR approaches in real life, and maybe doing LPV approaches in a simulator). Then, once your mission is more clear, upgrade to a C or higher (if your family will fly with you, most likely an F). 2) Define your mission better now, and buy what you plan to keep for a while.

I personally would recommend option 2, because especially with an older Mooney you will spend a lot of money in the first few years to catch up on maintenance to get the bird to where you want it to be (donuts? fuel tank leaks? magnetos? small panel improvements?), and these costs will be lost when you sell. But I fully understand the itch to buy something now (my first plane was a $15k Cherokee which I then spent another $10k to fix and sold for $15k back again, but I don't regret it a minute). Good luck with your decision. 

1) What is a minimal IFR rating?

and 

2) Is an IFR rating really useless without an LPV capable GPS?  

Are the approach pickings that slim in your neck of the woods?  Most of the airports on the eastern seaboard that you’d want to use in inclement weather have an ILS/loc or a VOR approach or both.  
 

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, JackPlek said:

Hello all,

Currently on the lookout for a M20C/E/F/J, but fell upon a M20B close to home that seems to fit the bill pretty nicely. Mid-time, basic VFR panel, low useful load. 

Anything I should be on the lookout for, for this model particularly? This would most likely be a stepping stone to something larger in the future, but might provide good practice and testing to see if this is something the family and I enjoy. Would need some upgrades as I want to use the plane to do my Instrument Rating.

Let me have it.

Thanks!

If you have a family, it really is worth it to hold out for an M20F. The space and the extra useful load will be worth it. 

The short bodies max out at 2575lbs, the F is 2740lbs.  The delta in useful load is usually in excess of 100lbs. 
 

[kortopates]

Owning is not cheaper but more expensive- you’ll be paying a premium to have 7x24 access to your plane. Therefore i wouldn’t recommend plane ownership to anyone that didn’t already love it. it’s cheaper to keep renting.
Another reason to rent is to be able to work on your instrument rating without having to spend a lot more to upgrade the panel.
But if you want to buy it’s always cheaper to get what you need than pay to upgrade it yourself.
Don’t under estimate the down time involved in upgrading the panel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MikeOH]

I've got 100+ hours in an M20B that I rented for many years.  I loved the plane but as others have pointed out, with a family, space and load are quite limited.  I made a few trips in it with the family and the kids were miserable! And, they were young at the time (otherwise I wouldn't have been able to carry any fuel!).  The fact it's not presently capable of IFR would be a big red flag as the cost to upgrade would have a very poor payback upon resale as I don't think many people are looking for an M20B.  I've heard the return is typically 50 cents on the dollar for a popular airframe and I'm guessing it would be lower on a B model.

If you really plan to fly with family then an F (my choice) or a J is probably a prudent choice, IMHO.  I'm not saying buy your last plane first, but using a B as an upgrade path may not be the best plan.

As far as cost, I'm not sure a B is going to be all that much lower cost.  Over eight years I've averaged right around $18K per year for my F model; I doubt the B would be under that by any significant amount.  That's an all-in number from the southern California area (hangar, insurance, property taxes, databases, fuel, oil, annual, maintenance, upgrades...shop towels) for 75-100 hours/year.  Frankly, the fixed costs dwarf the hourly variable costs; it's almost 'free' to just go fly for an hour or two.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you've never owned (I hadn't) then it's a bit of a different mindset: you need to be comfortable with the yearly nut as well as stomaching a multi-thousand expense if something breaks.  When I rented, I was looking at hourly costs when planning a trip.  Now, I don't think twice about what any given trip costs

And, I have to throw in my usual buying advice: regardless of what you buy, a plane that has been recently and regularly flown is much less likely to have issues after purchase than a hangar queen.

[AndreiC]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

1) What is a minimal IFR rating?

and 

2) Is an IFR rating really useless without an LPV capable GPS?  

Are the approach pickings that slim in your neck of the woods?  Most of the airports on the eastern seaboard that you’d want to use in inclement weather have an ILS/loc or a VOR approach or both.  
 

By minimal IFR rating I mean that from a legal standpoint (I think) you only need to prove that you are able to shoot two types of approaches, one of which should be a precision one. So if you can demonstrate that capability you'll get your ticket. But most people nowadays fly with GPS guidance, so if you got your ticket and you and your plane can only fly ILS and VOR, you will be seriously underusing your rating, as most airports of interest to GA pilots may not have one of these. 

In my area there is one big airport (MSN) with pretty much every kind of approach you'd ever want (including ASR), but the smaller airport (91C) I am based at only has GPS-based approaches. The other destination I most frequently fly to (3D2) also only has GPS-based approaches. If I ever got trapped in really bad weather I would go to MSN. But most of the time if the forecast calls for LIFR I will stay at home, and if the ceiling is OVC 007 I will easily fly LPV/LNAV+V approaches between my two smaller airports and not bother with a big airport and all the hassle associated with that (rent a car, drive home, go back the next day, ferry the plane, etc.) So for me having only ILS/VOR capabilities would be severely limiting. Of course, for others it may be different.

[AndreiC]

From what you describe it seems that a best choice for you is to look for an F. The delta between it and an early model J will be best to either keep in a fund for emergency expenses (something unexpected breaks) or to do upgrades after a while when all is settled. Don't underestimate in your planning the first few years' costs associated with little things you find that you need/want to be upgraded. As a basic example, shortly after buying my E I decided that for peace of mind I really wanted to have the LHS system with gear warning, mainly as a tool to not forget the gear down. (I don't think of myself as invincible.) With installation that was a quick 2 AMU. New landing gear donuts, 5 AMU (iirc). Things add up quickly. 

[Schllc]

Buy the newest, best equipped and frequently flown plane you can afford. 
These are the primary things on everyone’s wishlist and will  be easier to sell, less maintenance down time, and probably at the end of the day cost the same to own as a much cheaper plane. 
what one pays for an airplane is not the cost factor that matters most. 
what it cost you to own, use and maintain is where many find themselves surprised. 
 

[MikeOH]

Just now, Schllc said:

what one pays for an airplane is not the cost factor that matters most. 

^^^ THIS ^^^

[Ragsf15e]

10 hours ago, JackPlek said:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, really appreciated. 

What you're saying makes a lot of sense. My budget would allow for more plane right now (probably maxing out on an early J model), but since it's my first plane, I'm still unsure of the long-term viability of me owning a plane, especially with the optic of flying with my family (wife and 2 kids, currently 5 and 2). I feel like buying a bit less plane now reduces the risk of regretting the purchase in the short to medium term, but with the IFR restrictions associated with it, I might be painting myself in a corner. My main goal this year is still to get my instrument rating, and if that requires major upgrades that won't translate to sale price down the line, than that's probably not ideal either.

My mission for the next few years would be 90% solo, 400-500NM cross-country flights, with the remaining 10% being with the wife and kids.

The flaps on the B are in fact manual flaps.

Thanks again for your input!

If you can afford an early J, id suggest a well equipped and cared for “turn-key” F.  It should not require upgrades or engine OH, be flown regularly, and it will provide a good platform for both your IFR training and your family flying.  It will also be easier to sell than a B.  The F has enough room and useful load for 4 reasonably sized people, especially if 2 are kids.

I highly recommend using a very knowledgeable broker or getting help from someone else very experienced in buying airplanes and a thorough prebuy to make sure there aren’t any issues making it a hangar queen instead of “turn-key”.

Do you have a hangar yet?

[JackPlek]

11 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

If you can afford an early J, id suggest a well equipped and cared for “turn-key” F.  It should not require upgrades or engine OH, be flown regularly, and it will provide a good platform for both your IFR training and your family flying.  It will also be easier to sell than a B.  The F has enough room and useful load for 4 reasonably sized people, especially if 2 are kids.

I highly recommend using a very knowledgeable broker or getting help from someone else very experienced in buying airplanes and a thorough prebuy to make sure there aren’t any issues making it a hangar queen instead of “turn-key”.

Do you have a hangar yet?

Thanks for the input, I agree that an F would make a great pick!

There are no hangars available at my home airport, so I'm currently in talks with the operator to see what the process/cost is to build one on a land lease, but I suspect it will have to be tie-downs, at least to start.

[JackPlek]

20 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I've got 100+ hours in an M20B that I rented for many years.  I loved the plane but as others have pointed out, with a family, space and load are quite limited.  I made a few trips in it with the family and the kids were miserable! And, they were young at the time (otherwise I wouldn't have been able to carry any fuel!).  The fact it's not presently capable of IFR would be a big red flag as the cost to upgrade would have a very poor payback upon resale as I don't think many people are looking for an M20B.  I've heard the return is typically 50 cents on the dollar for a popular airframe and I'm guessing it would be lower on a B model.

If you really plan to fly with family then an F (my choice) or a J is probably a prudent choice, IMHO.  I'm not saying buy your last plane first, but using a B as an upgrade path may not be the best plan.

As far as cost, I'm not sure a B is going to be all that much lower cost.  Over eight years I've averaged right around $18K per year for my F model; I doubt the B would be under that by any significant amount.  That's an all-in number from the southern California area (hangar, insurance, property taxes, databases, fuel, oil, annual, maintenance, upgrades...shop towels) for 75-100 hours/year.  Frankly, the fixed costs dwarf the hourly variable costs; it's almost 'free' to just go fly for an hour or two.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you've never owned (I hadn't) then it's a bit of a different mindset: you need to be comfortable with the yearly nut as well as stomaching a multi-thousand expense if something breaks.  When I rented, I was looking at hourly costs when planning a trip.  Now, I don't think twice about what any given trip costs

And, I have to throw in my usual buying advice: regardless of what you buy, a plane that has been recently and regularly flown is much less likely to have issues after purchase than a hangar queen.

Great advice here, thanks.

An F is definitely up there in my wish list! From the advice I've been getting, I think getting a plane that most closely resemble what I will need in the future right now is probably the best bet. 

Now I just need to find that elusive bird!

[LANCECASPER]

58 minutes ago, JackPlek said:

Thanks for the input, I agree that an F would make a great pick!

There are no hangars available at my home airport, so I'm currently in talks with the operator to see what the process/cost is to build one on a land lease, but I suspect it will have to be tie-downs, at least to start.

If you live in Northern Ontario and you own an airplane you need a hangar. The first airplane I owned, a C-172, when I lived in North Dakota lived in a hangar. I wouldn't want to clean snow and ice off of it every time I wanted to fly in the winter.  You'll be able to manage pre-heating much better in your hangar. Get on a list before you ever shop for an airplane. Especially in that climate, buying an airplane without securing a hangar is like buying your furniture before finding a place to live.

(I just checked my logbook - as a student pilot I got signed off to fly that 172 that I bought from Ames, Iowa back to Grand Forks, ND with a fuel stop in Fergus Falls, MN 40 years ago yesterday, 12/27/1985. It spent 5 nights outside before the hangar lease started on January 1, 1986 and continued until I sold it.)

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, JackPlek said:

Thanks for the input, I agree that an F would make a great pick!

There are no hangars available at my home airport, so I'm currently in talks with the operator to see what the process/cost is to build one on a land lease, but I suspect it will have to be tie-downs, at least to start.

You really need to find hangar space.  Go out to the airport and start making friends with all the old guys hanging around working on airplanes.  Someone will know someone who might have a corner of their hangar that just might fit another airplane.  You really want it covered.

[JackPlek]

4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

You really need to find hangar space.  Go out to the airport and start making friends with all the old guys hanging around working on airplanes.  Someone will know someone who might have a corner of their hangar that just might fit another airplane.  You really want it covered.

Thanks, good to know.

It's a small airport with only the flying club that has a hangar, and it's full. Everyone else uses tie-downs.

I'm looking at what building one will involve.

[JackPlek]

4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

You really need to find hangar space.  Go out to the airport and start making friends with all the old guys hanging around working on airplanes.  Someone will know someone who might have a corner of their hangar that just might fit another airplane.  You really want it covered.

Yeah, no it's a small airport with just a big commercial warehouse (not available for rental) and a small hangar for the flying club that is full.

I'm looking at getting one built and what that involves.

Thanks for the reply!

[Utah20Gflyer]

I would recommend getting the Instrument rating first in a rental airplane and then shopping for a Mooney.  I didn’t  do that and as a result it took me much longer to do the instrument than if I had done what I’m telling you.  Owning an airplane is a part time job and requires a skill set that you will need to learn.  This competes with time you might be spending to learn instrument flying skills.  You also might find that after you do your instrument rating that what you are expect from a plane you own may change.  Yes you could fly “basic IFR”  but personally I don’t want to do it without a modern WASS GPS navigator.  It’s not that it can’t or even shouldn’t be done.  It’s just a realization that I want things to be as easy as possible if I’m conducting single pilot IFR.  

[Yetti]

On 12/27/2025 at 8:36 AM, JackPlek said:

Hello all,

Currently on the lookout for a M20C/E/F/J, but fell upon a M20B close to home that seems to fit the bill pretty nicely. Mid-time, basic VFR panel, low useful load. 

Anything I should be on the lookout for, for this model particularly? This would most likely be a stepping stone to something larger in the future, but might provide good practice and testing to see if this is something the family and I enjoy. Would need some upgrades as I want to use the plane to do my Instrument Rating.

Let me have it.

Thanks!

Get the FAA docs on the plane.

Do an AD compliance check.    We found an AD that had not been complied with after 10 years of me flying the plane.

A later model plane is easier to do an AD compliance because later planes had compliance done at the factory.

The cost of flying is not in the purchase price of an airplane.

[N911TP]

I’m a very satisfied M20B owner. They’re identical in body and engine to the C with minor differences. ALL M20B’s were made in 1961. Only 223 were built and 115 are still flying. The differences to the C are mechanical flaps, no hat rack, slightly lower useful load. That’s it. They all have manual gear. 
 

Cons: It’s hard to find an autopilot for the B. The GFC500 is not STC’d for the B. The only autopilot I’ve found is the trutrak. It’s hard to find A&Ps with B experience. Asbestos in the firewall. 
 

Pros: very easy to work on yourself. No hydraulics (except for brakes), everything is mechanical. You can find these for cheap still. Avionics upgrades are easy to do with the easy access to the avionics compartment. 

PM me to chat more about the B