Remove Before Flight Poll

[Jackk]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

Many Mooneys don't have beacons. The FAA has stated that the strobes gotta be on from startup to shutdown except when "it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off"

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-C/section-91.209

https://www.faa.gov/media/13821

 

Which means off during taxi 

[toto]

1 hour ago, Jackk said:

Which means off during taxi 

Similar to others above, my ac came only with strobes, and they’re on from engine start to engine shutdown.

(Tbh I just keep them on all the time, so if the master switch is on then the strobes are on.)

[Flyler]

I've only just purchased this Bruce cover so I have not yet had the chance to forget to remove it before flight.  The warning placard is so small, hopefully I do not forget.

 

[Ragsf15e]

I’m another who only has strobes and leaves them on at all times.  Ive flown “big iron” with rules/techniques similar to what @Jackk suggests and they do make sense in some applications.  However, for our small (and short) airplanes I think having a blinking light on the ground is more positive than negative.  It also seems our strobes aren’t as bright as say a Gulfstream, but maybe that’s me.  I definitely consider turning them off more at night as they can be distracting (especially to others), but without them, it can be hard to see the airplane even with all the other lights on.  For example, parked in a runup with someone else taxiing in , I might leave them on until they are definitely lining up next to me and not at me and then turn them off.  In the daytime, without fog or maybe snow, they don’t really bother me when others leave theirs on.

[Jackk]

57 minutes ago, toto said:

Similar to others above, my ac came only with strobes, and they’re on from engine start to engine shutdown.

(Tbh I just keep them on all the time, so if the master switch is on then the strobes are on.)

 Ooof

 

 Please rethink this for night ops if you’re taxing around others 

[Hank]

6 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I've seen airborne returns for failure to preflight the waste tanks at great cost to company and passengers.

Wow, I'm really missing out in my short body Mooney! Not only is there no shitter, there's not even a pissoir!

[Andy95W]

On 11/24/2025 at 12:12 PM, FlyingDude said:

Why isn't there a "Nothing" box?  

In 36 years I’ve missed three things on the list and 1 more that ISN’T on the list!

[201er]

2 hours ago, Jackk said:

Which means off during taxi 

No, it doesn't. The Murphy 2011 LOI literally states that they need to be on during all aircraft operations which begin at engine start. So, I suppose you could take that to mean they can be off if you are towing or pushing the plane because it has not yet been started. But it clearly states that they need to be on during operation the entire time. The only time they can be switched off from startup to shutdown is when "it would be in the interest of safety".

 

Section 91.209(b) states that a person may not "[o]perate an aircraft that is equipped with an
anticollision light system unless it has lighted anticollision lights." The term "operate" is
defined in 14 C.F .R. 1.1 as "use, cause to use or authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose ...
of air navigation ... " The FAA has stated that the term operate "applies to 'those acts
which impart some physical movement to the aircraft, or involve the manipulation of the
controls of the aircraft such as starting or running an aircraft engine.'" May 4, 1979, Letter
to Delfina R. Mott from Edward P. Faberman, Acting Assistant Chief Counsel (quoting
Amendment 91-43, 32 Fed. Reg. 9640 (1967)).
As the FAA 's 1979 letter points out, an aircraft is being operated when its engine is turned
on with the intent of using that aircraft to take off and engage in air navigation. See id As
such, § 91.209(b) requires that an aircraft's anti collision lights be turned on once that
aircraft's engine is started for the purpose of air navigation.

[201er]

On 11/24/2025 at 12:12 PM, FlyingDude said:

Why isn't there a "Nothing" box?  

I'm still waiting to hear someone boast they've never forgotten a cover or the chocks. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Everyone needs to go back a few steps anytime they get distracted on preflight and also do a walkaround, at a distance, of the entire aircraft.

Phone call interrupt your preflight?  Go back a bit and do a walkaround.

Prop strikes Tow bars and FBO traffic cones are *such* common claims.

Old Republic (the insurance underwriter) even has branded "Tow Bar Removed?" embroidered keychain straps.

[Hank]

21 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Old Republic (the insurance underwriter) even has branded "Tow Bar Removed?" embroidered keychain straps.

Maybe you should send some of those to your clients . . . .  

[201er]

22 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Prop strikes Tow bars and FBO traffic cones are *such* common claims.

Old Republic (the insurance underwriter) even has branded "Tow Bar Removed?" embroidered keychain straps.

 

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Wow, I'm really missing out in my short body Mooney! Not only is there no shitter, there's not even a pissoir!

But have you had to land because someone forgot to go to before departure?

[MikeOH]

If one end of the tow bar is connected to the aircraft, the other end is connected to my hand.

I am crazy zealous with this rule... if I need to check wingtip clearance while pushing, I will remove the tow bar, walk over to check, walk back and reinsert the tow bar.  

So far, so good

[GeeBee]

54 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Everyone needs to go back a few steps anytime they get distracted on preflight and also do a walkaround, at a distance, of the entire aircraft.

Phone call interrupt your preflight?  Go back a bit and do a walkaround.

Prop strikes Tow bars and FBO traffic cones are *such* common claims.

Old Republic (the insurance underwriter) even has branded "Tow Bar Removed?" embroidered keychain straps.

AKA, "The sanity check"

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

But have you had to land because someone forgot to go to before departure?

Not even when my prostate acting up . . . . Made it 400+ nm once during that time, too.

[Jackk]

2 hours ago, 201er said:

No, it doesn't. The Murphy 2011 LOI literally states that they need to be on during all aircraft operations which begin at engine start. So, I suppose you could take that to mean they can be off if you are towing or pushing the plane because it has not yet been started. But it clearly states that they need to be on during operation the entire time. The only time they can be switched off from startup to shutdown is when "it would be in the interest of safety".

 

Section 91.209(b) states that a person may not "[o]perate an aircraft that is equipped with an
anticollision light system unless it has lighted anticollision lights." The term "operate" is
defined in 14 C.F .R. 1.1 as "use, cause to use or authorize to use aircraft, for the purpose ...
of air navigation ... " The FAA has stated that the term operate "applies to 'those acts
which impart some physical movement to the aircraft, or involve the manipulation of the
controls of the aircraft such as starting or running an aircraft engine.'" May 4, 1979, Letter
to Delfina R. Mott from Edward P. Faberman, Acting Assistant Chief Counsel (quoting
Amendment 91-43, 32 Fed. Reg. 9640 (1967)).
As the FAA 's 1979 letter points out, an aircraft is being operated when its engine is turned
on with the intent of using that aircraft to take off and engage in air navigation. See id As
such, § 91.209(b) requires that an aircraft's anti collision lights be turned on once that
aircraft's engine is started for the purpose of air navigation.

 Common sense > LOI

 

 Taxing around with your strobes on (esp at night near others) is not smart, what a bunch of failure to launch GSs at OKC say is meaningless, which is why they even figured to add the “unless unsafe” to the wording.

 

[Paul Thomas]

17 hours ago, MikeOH said:

If one end of the tow bar is connected to the aircraft, the other end is connected to my hand.

I am crazy zealous with this rule... if I need to check wingtip clearance while pushing, I will remove the tow bar, walk over to check, walk back and reinsert the tow bar.  

So far, so good

I am as well because I forgot one when we had a bad battery; there was a possibility that the airplane would have been started without removing the tow bar.

Without the help of a CFI, I would have started tied down or chocked; I don't remember which but I do remember the lesson to always look at the airplane one last time.

I did leave the fuel cap off the airplane once; I saw it as soon as I started taxing back to the hangar. Now they go back on immediately. It's also taught me that it's not because you just flew the airplane that you can get in and go. Do look at it again and run checklists.

Edited 18 hours ago by Paul Thomas

[Fly Boomer]

6 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

It also seems our strobes aren’t as bright as say a Gulfstream, but maybe that’s me.

Many of our planes are equipped with LEDs instead of strobes.  The LEDs are bright, but not even close to a strobe.  The Gulfstream probably has real strobes.

Xenon strobe vs LED flashing lights:

 

[Ragsf15e]

2 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Many of our planes are equipped with LEDs instead of strobes.  The LEDs are bright, but not even close to a strobe.  The Gulfstream probably has real strobes.

Xenon strobe vs LED flashing lights:

 

Ha! Thanks, I was just guessing, but it appears our strobes really are less intense.  Both of the airplanes I fly have LED strobes so it makes sense now.  Thanks for adding that.

[Slick Nick]

5 hours ago, Jackk said:

 Common sense > LOI

 

 Taxing around with your strobes on (esp at night near others) is not smart, what a bunch of failure to launch GSs at OKC say is meaningless, which is why they even figured to add the “unless unsafe” to the wording.

 

Instead of saying “unless unsafe” it should say “unless practicable.”

Common sense (airmanship) is severely lacking these days. People taxiing around day or night with high intensity lights on just “because it says so” with no regard for other aviators is far too prevalent. (Among other things.)

I come from the “big iron” world also, and it’s embarrassing to be caught with your strobes on while taxiing. Usually, you’ve got about 7 seconds before the guy in lineup behind you chides you on the frequency. 

Best practice is to turn them on when entering an active runway and off again once clear. If you have a lower intensity beacon light to leave on instead, all the better. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Slick Nick said:

Instead of saying “unless unsafe” it should say “unless practicable.”

Common sense (airmanship) is severely lacking these days. People taxiing around day or night with high intensity lights on just “because it says so” with no regard for other aviators is far too prevalent. (Among other things.)

I come from the “big iron” world also, and it’s embarrassing to be caught with your strobes on while taxiing. Usually, you’ve got about 7 seconds before the guy in lineup behind you chides you on the frequency. 

Best practice is to turn them on when entering an active runway and off again once clear. If you have a lower intensity beacon light to leave on instead, all the better. 

Well I’m gonna leave mine on.  If you’re behind me, you can call me on tower if you want, but then at least I know you saw me! 

[Z W]

This poll needs an option for leaving the oil cap off after adding a quart.

[FlyingDude]

19 hours ago, 201er said:

I'm still waiting to hear someone boast they've never forgotten a cover or the chocks. 

Why would it be "boasting" if it's the truth? Furthermore, if a said person started the thread "hey, I have never made this mistake in xx hours, how about you suckers?" then yea, that would be boasting. Here, the post is asking the question and a very applicable answer is missing. 

I'm still novice at 1700hrs so I choose the yet other option: "decline to answer" 

But I got curious and did check with 2 pilots, 11k and 12k hours each, almost all of them in GA, both about 8k+ hrs dual given, and both answered "nothing". 

Evil eye caused by jealousy is not karma, btw...

[Jackk]

19 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

Why would it be "boasting" if it's the truth? Furthermore, if a said person started the thread "hey, I have never made this mistake in xx hours, how about you suckers?" then yea, that would be boasting. Here, the post is asking the question and a very applicable answer is missing. 

I'm still novice at 1700hrs so I choose the yet other option: "decline to answer" 

But I got curious and did check with 2 pilots, 11k and 12k hours each, almost all of them in GA, both about 8k+ hrs dual given, and both answered "nothing". 

Evil eye caused by jealousy is not karma, btw...

 With 11 & 12k hrs and they never forgot something?

 Even if it was forgot the crew car keys or something? 

 

 

 

Or they should buy a lotto ticket

 

 

*Also good tip always leave the car keys in the hangar or by the car.

Edited 16 hours ago by Jackk