Cockpit Noise

[M20E-1964]

Im wondering what other M20 owners think regarding the noise level in the cockpit. Prior to buying my Mooney M20E, I mostly flew 172s, 182s, PA-28s etc.

I find the noise level in my M20 approaching unbearable after 4 hours or so. I've been getting some dual from a 10,000+ hr plus CFI that actually though his Bose ANR was broken due to the noise on climb out.

The airplene just completed annual so there's nothing mechanically wrong.

Do most of you guys fly with ANR headsets? If so, how much do they help.

As much as I hate to spend the money, I think I'm going to have to get a Bose or Lightspeed...

[Immelman]

One of the weaknesses of our beloved Mooneys is the noise. I hold the same opinions as you regarding comparisons to other light single engine airplanes.

I think noise cancelling headsets are a must. I've been quite happy with my Bose X's and the Lightspeed 20XLC. True, the takeoff roll is noisy but it seems that once I'm off the ground and am cleaning up the airplane, the noise level is quite comfortable with a pair of good-quality ANR headsets with decent attenuation.

The bose is my favorite for long-trip comfort. About the only headset I have worn that will be good for 4-hr legs. However don't count out the used market to save money. I picked up a very gently used bose X a few years ago for $500, sent them in for refurbishment, and it was like having a new pair for half price.

[Lood]

I tend to agree. My F is extremely noisy inside and with normal PNR headsets, my ears zing after any 2 - 3 hour flight. It seems to be more wind noise than engine noise and my ANR's make a huge difference. I flew with a friend in his '50's C170 the other day and it was so quiet that you could just as well fly without headsets.
A thorough sound proofing is certainly next on my to do list for the Mooney. Another friend of mine owns a 1982 231 Mooney, he doesn't even own headsets and he still uses a handheld microphone for radio transmissions. This Mooney has just about the same noise level inside than a normal passenger car and it is still factory standard - from paintwork to interior. Apparently, a lot of noise comes through the windows but my Mooney does not have any soundproofing behind any of its panels, whatsoever. I'm prepared to trade a few lbs in weight for less noise.
My kids don't really like to wear headsets for a long time, so they sit without them for extended periods in flight and it can certainly not be good for their hearing.

[SkyPilot]

I heard from an aerobatic pilot that the Telex Stratus 50D puts everything else to shame. I don't want to add any more weight, so I'll likely trade in the old "David Clamps" for a new-fangled Telex. At $750 it's a lot but a good hearing aid costs more

[jetdriven]

A M20 Mooney is a really loud airplane. My Bose X cannot keep up with it. I thought the radios and intercom were bad, but now I think its just the noise level. She got a Lightspeed Zulu.2 and it is unbelievably more quiet with that on. Comfortable actually. I borrow it from here whenever I can.

[M20E-1964]

Quote: SkyPilot

I heard from an aerobatic pilot that the Telex Stratus 50D puts everything else to shame. I don't want to add any more weight, so I'll likely trade in the old "David Clamps" for a new-fangled Telex. At $750 it's a lot but a good hearing aid costs more

[Guest]

I've flown my Mooney with Bose for many years  and the aircraft is also very well insulated. When my Bose are on they are very quiet through take off, climb and cruise. I do find if I do not replace my ear seals every couple of years the sound does creep up on you and will break on take off, when you replace them you hear a noticeable difference very quiet again. 

 

[MooneyMitch]

Lightspeed is offering $200 off the Zulu2 when you send them your operational passive David Clark headset.  Total cost is $700.  

You must buy directly from Lightspeed in order to receive discount.  

[jetdriven]

I bought a 80$ used ANR headset from ebay, then shipped that to Lightspeed for the 300$ trade in. 

[DaV8or]

It's just a theory, but could it be that the steel cage is the source of additional noise in the Mooney? The engine is mounted directly to it and then it surounds us. Other wise, what else would explain the higher noise levels that the competing brands with the same motors?

[jetdriven]

Dave, I think so.  The steel cage is very rigid compared to aluminum and transmits a lot of vibration to the skin.  Now the skin is riveted to the frame and resonates and bangs. Even taxxing with my headset off it sounds like a lumber wagon  THe forward fuselage not semi-monocoque, and the skin is just there to keep the rain off you.  That and the windshield recieves the pressure pulses from the prop adding to the "drum effect".  

Then to top it off, a 360 cube 4-banger lycoming with 5.25" bore.  (454 Chevy or Cadillac 500 is only 4.25")  The same bore as an IO-550 Continental, but only 2 pulses per rovolution instead of 3.  I have always thought this was a banging, noisy engine.  Especially on the ragged edge of LOP.

What do you think?

[nels]

I wonder if a bead of silicone caulk put down along side and between the skin and tube structure (both sides of the tube) might cancel a lot of the resonance transmitted from the tube to the skin and vise versa. The later J models use what appears to be a thin but dense stick on type deadener. I wonder how affective  the J sound deadener is?

[TonyPynes]

I switched to Halo aviation "in ear" headsets a few months ago and don't seem to have thee same issue with loudness in my M20F. Of course I went from Dave Clarks and a Piper Arrow. But the sound doesn't seem to be an issue and I do fly hours at a time with no zing.

 

 

[PTK]

I use my panel powered Bose X and the same for the copilot. Before these I had a DC 13.4 which I converted to ANR with Headsets Inc kit and put in the back for the passengers. Excellent upgrade to an excellent headset by the way!

We never thought of the noise level in the Mooney as being excessive or problematic. The Bose are definitely excellent and very very comfortable.

[scottfromiowa]

Retracted...

[MooneyMitch]

Quote: allsmiles

I use my panel powered Bose X and the same for the copilot. Before these I had a DC 13.4 which I converted to ANR with Headsets Inc kit and put in the back for the passengers. Excellent upgrade to an excellent headset by the way!

We never thought of the noise level in the Mooney as being excessive or problematic. The Bose are definitely excellent and very very comfortable.

[alex]

I replaced the Bose x with a set of a20's and the difference is quite noticeable. On takeoff with the x's the anr appeared to fail especially during the roll. The a20's reduce the noise level considerably more and during takeoff they don't skip a beat

[nels]

Quote: Lood

 Another friend of mine owns a 1982 231 Mooney, he doesn't even own headsets and he still uses a handheld microphone for radio transmissions. This Mooney has just about the same noise level inside than a normal passenger car and it is still factory standard - from paintwork to interior. Apparently, a lot of noise comes through the windows but my Mooney does not have any soundproofing behind any of its panels, whatsoever. I'm prepared to trade a few lbs in weight for less noise.

[DonMuncy]

As far as I am concerned, ANR is is the only way to go. The Headsets, Inc. conversion is a real bargain (just under $200 if I remember correctly). They are not very difficult to install, and you can hard wire them into the panel so you don't use batteries. One of the top 5 "bang for the buck" purchases I have ever made in aviation.

[Lood]

@nels, something certainly changed in the newer Mooney's like the 231 of my friend. The first time I flew wih him, I immediately noticed that it had less space form door to door than my F. I actually found it a bit uncomfortable with us having to rub shoulders all the time. This means that his side panels are further out which probably says something toward what is behind the panels.

I agree 100% on the Headsets Inc. ANR mod. I modified my DC's and they work exceptionally well. I just need to hard wire them to the airplanes' power as cheaper 9v batteries don't last very long. Better quality one like Duracell do last up to 6 hours though.

[MooneyMitch]

Headsets Inc. sells the panel mounted power regulator unit which wires into your aircraft power.  Works great, no more batteries.

http://www.headsetsinc.com/Accessories.html

[flight2000]

Quote: AustinPynes

I switched to Halo aviation "in ear" headsets a few months ago and don't seem to have thee same issue with loudness in my M20F. Of course I went from Dave Clarks and a Piper Arrow. But the sound doesn't seem to be an issue and I do fly hours at a time with no zing.

I switched two years ago to the Halo's as well and will never go back to anything that clamps on my head again.  I've worn them on trips and no longer have sweaty ears when I'm done flying (big plus in warm weather).  I used to own DC 13.4 headsets and could no longer wear them for more than an hour without pain. 

Not sure what the big deal is with the ANR's everyone loves to talk about.  I used a pair of the Bose ANR's in a friends SR22 and simply was not impressed.

Granted, the in the ear style is not for everyone, but after 18 years in the military, I have no issues wearing the foam inserts for long periods of time and my hearing is just fine after using them on those noisy AF cargo aircraft and while on the range.  The halo's were designed by an audiologist (and fellow Mooney owner), so I think he knows what he's doing...

Brian

[johnggreen]

I have never flown any Mooney but my Bravo and a couple of Ovations; all of which had Bose.  In this day and age, flying without ANR's is like smoking unfiltered cigarettes, uh, dumb.

On another note, my Bravo is one of the quietest airplanes I have ever flown; takeoff, climb, and cruise.  At 15m, I wear the Bose but don't need them.  It's like being at home in my bed.  It is almost eerily quiet.  Far quieter than a Skylane or Bonanza.

You guys with older birds need to look into some good sound proofing.  Actually, it is not that big a job taking out and replacing the interior, but I'm not going there.  it would give you a far more enjoyable airplane.

I have a sound meter and may take some readings in my plane and post them just for the unbelievers.

 

Jgreen

[triple8s]

I bought a set of X shortly after I got the Mooney and thought they were great. I then had the interior out to check the tubing and the old insulation was still in so out came ALL of the interior and carpet. Before re-installation new insulation/soundproofing went back in and it helped, lots, however, after the insulation was installed I did notice an abnormality. Whenever I takeoff and climb up to cold temps, the hydraulic flap pump is stiff, as well as the trim. I "think" the better insulation doesnt let as much heat out of the cabin and therefore the pump and trim gears may get colder as a result and in turn may be more stiff to operate. I have been happy with the Bose X until.......someone bought me new A20's, personally? I prefer the A20's by a long shot, they feel better and seem to be quieter as well, not to mention they have blue tooth, makes dealing with flight plans very easy when you can't establish radio communication before takeoff.

[eaglebkh]

There is a product in the automotive market that I would love to put in my plane.  It's called Lizard Skin and is a spray.  I would imagine that an entire M20 fuselage and firewall could be treated for a few tiny pounds of weight.  Not to mention the anti-corrosive benefits...

http://www.lizardskin.com/

The car shows on SpikeTV use this product alot.

Oh, the perils of certified airplanes...