Requirement for runway lights for IFR takeoff

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The flying club I worked for had a 1959 C182 that had three flares in the side of the fuselage just aft of the cabin.   I was always skeptical as to their utility.

Not sure I ever knew what was intended, but now it's just a reminder from a bygone era.

[Yetti]

https://forum.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10931&sid=b89002e7145822b19c7ee39834c13031&start=15

[Fly Boomer]

40 minutes ago, Yetti said:

https://forum.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10931&sid=b89002e7145822b19c7ee39834c13031&start=15

That was cool.  So, you pop a flare before you jump into the darkness?

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

That was cool.  So, you pop a flare before you jump into the darkness?

Kind of like the ski planes in Alaska carry pine boughs to drop on the snow and figure out where the white sky turns into white ground . . . .

[Ibra]

The inquity is closed, for some reason the flight plan was mis-labelled as "scheduled flight/public transport": such flight should not have taken place from that airport (even by day) and someone decided to flag and follow up.

I also got the radar traces, I am impressed someone check some obscure fields in ICAO flight plans and how long they keep this stuff, I don't even recall what was filed...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by Ibra

[Ibra]

Interesting discussion about 0-0 takeoff, I have done load of these under VFR in Pitts as forward visibility is c***p  Never under IFR, my lowest takeoff was 600m (1800ft) RVR and my lowest approach was 800m (2400ft) RVR 

For weather minima on private IFR operations here:

* If RVR is not published, there is not much, you still get lot of reminders from ATC: "check your minima?," "what are your intentions?", "are you doing it for the fun?" 

If RVR is published,

* Takeoffs are limited to 400m-550m RVR by day (1200ft-1800ft or 1/4-1/3 sm) and 800m RVR by night (2400ft or 1/2 sm) depending on airports 

* Approaches are limited to 550m RVR (1800ft RVR or 1/3 sm) 

For takeoff: even when ATC RVR < 400m (1200ft), the pilot is still allowed to interpret PIC RVR by going to runway and calculating light bulbs × 200ft, we call it "VIBAL RVR", if he swears that he sees 7 lights bulbs, he is good to takeoff. However, there is no such thing as "zero-zero" takeoff.

For landing: one need ATC RVR > 550m, there is "no approache ban" on private operations in Europe when RVR > 550m (in FAR Part91, there is an "approach ban" when RVR is lower than the plates?). I recall one reason for this is that: one is allowed to descend on ALS/HIALS lights only down to (in FAR Part91, I understand one is limited to 100ft agl unless they see runway,  threshold, or touchdown...but Part91 are allowed this when doing Cat2/3?)

My personal planning minima are usually way higher, especially for alternates and fuel planning. However when flying, I tend to fly legal minima: I am happy to take off as long as visibility exceeds my takeoff roll and ok with landing in 550m as long as I have approach lights and official glide.

My last real approach was in December 100ft ceiling and 3000ft visibility as easy as it gets with wind <5kts. I rarely get the chance to go lower than than this? these occurances are once in 200h of flying and "I love flying weather at my homebase" (my goal is to fly away when weather is c***p at home to somewhere sunny, usually south, then return even when weather is still c***p at home).

Edited January 15 by Ibra

[Fly Boomer]

On 1/15/2025 at 2:40 AM, Ibra said:

my goal is to fly away when weather is c***p at home to somewhere sunny, usually south

I like this plan!  I was poking around ForeFlight yesterday looking for warmer temperatures, but even well south of the border, it was only in the 50s (F).

[Ibra]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I was poking around ForeFlight yesterday looking for warmer temperatures, but even well south of the border, it was only in the 50s (F).

Yeah, not this week: the "Artic Air has reached Texas" 

While ago I saw a non-turbo aircraft with TKS + AirCon (and not much useful load left), I can see now why someone needs both...

Edited January 16 by Ibra

[Ibra]

I went for some night IFR practice after work in foggy conditions, this time lights were working but I asked ATC for favours: 

I did 1×takeoff without lights: nothing special on heading until radar identified 

2×approach without runway and approach lights: Crikey not a chance !

2×approach with lights: I got in but only on ILS end with HI-ALS

For landings, I think I need one of those LED from the "brightest LED" Mooney thread or from "US trucks forums" 

 

Edited January 17 by Ibra

[Hank]

46 minutes ago, Ibra said:

I went for some night IFR practice after work in foggy conditions, this time lights were working but I asked ATC for favours: 

I did 1×takeoff without lights: nothing special on heading until radar identified 

2×approach without runway and approach lights: Crikey not a chance !

2×approach with lights: I got in but only on ILS end with HI-ALS

For landings, I think I need one of those LED from the "brightest LED" Mooney thread or from "US trucks forums" 

Good on you for trying! Be sure to log the missing lights on each approach, and which were successful, even if inkynfor your own personal review the next few years.

I love, love, love my Whelen LED landing light. It went in in April '14, when the GE incandescent blew between takeoff and landing . . . Since then, one A&P and one instrument tech have turned it off, otherwise it's always on. It's a big improvement in visibility to others, day and night, and it lights up the runway pretty well, too.

[Ibra]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I love, love, love my Whelen LED landing light. It went in in April '14, when the GE incandescent blew between takeoff and landing

Thanks, I will go for Whalen LED landing light this year, maybe with strobe/nav as well (changed incandescent strobe with another incandescent strobe not while ago)

Edited January 18 by Ibra

[Justin Schmidt]

On 1/15/2025 at 3:05 AM, Ibra said:

I am impressed someone check some obscure fields in ICAO flight plans

Automated Software audits 

[cliffy]

In a bygone era there were many 200-400 RVR night departures from KSMO with VENTURI driven gyros

in a Cessna 140, to the top of a 400 ft fog layer

There have been more 200/ 1/2 and CATIII approaches while in big iron than I ever want to repeat

Now 20 years after the last Pt 121 landing its DAY VFR only in SE equipment.