AndreiC Posted October 23 Report Posted October 23 My 1970 M20E is hangared at 91C (Sauk Prairie), its home base, where there are no mechanics on the field. My plan was to fly her to KUGN (Waukegan), a 1 hour flight, before the end of the month when the annual expires, for a mechanic there to do the annual over a few weeks. However, I broke my ankle a couple of days ago and so can't fly. I have a friend who can fly her there, but he is busy until mid-next week, and that is cutting it quite close with the end of the month next Thursday. (We may still be able to do it Wednesday or Thursday next week, and that would certainly be the easiest, but my questions are in case something does not go according to plan, weather, other commitments...) My question: is getting a ferry permit for a plane that has no squawks and is just recently out of annual a complicated affair? Do I need an A&P to come over and look at it, or can they sign the permit and send it to me by mail? Or is this something I just ask the FSDO for? I have little idea of how the process works. One other thought -- is it easier to get this ferry permit *before* the end of the month, while the plane is still in annual? Thanks. Quote
EricJ Posted October 23 Report Posted October 23 Here's the process. It shouldn't be difficult for an aircraft recently out of annual if all of the ADs are up to date. It may differ for your exact FSDO, but I suspect it'll be similar. https://www.faa.gov/media/29886 Quote
Flyler Posted October 23 Report Posted October 23 Give the FSDO a call and ask, it's probably not so hard. Just my opinion, but I would guess its easier to explain the situation and get the ball rolling before the Annual expires. You might not need an A&P to sign anything. Quote
LANCECASPER Posted October 23 Report Posted October 23 25 minutes ago, Flyler said: Give the FSDO a call and ask, it's probably not so hard. Just my opinion, but I would guess its easier to explain the situation and get the ball rolling before the Annual expires. You might not need an A&P to sign anything. Assuming the last annual was signed off in October 2023, you don't need anyone to sign anything if it's flown over 10/31/24 or sooner. You do need a ferry permit if it's 11/01/24 or later. There's no grace period. Quote
RangerM20 Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 It's a lot harder than it used to be. You'll have to fill out the application for certification, under "special flight permit", and have the local FSDO approve it. Or you can employ a DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative). The difference is that the FSDO is free, while the DAR will charge a fee. The link that EricJ provided is a good one to follow, as it goes through the process step by step. Of course, if the flight is made before October 31, you won't need to do anything, as the annual is still in effect. 1 Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 I got one recently using the latest process. It was pretty easy. Make sure you put your cell phone number and probably your email on the form somewhere. An inspector from the FAA called within a few hours to talk about it. The airplane owner got it approved the next day. It was to fly an expired airplane to another airport for an annual. They will approve those all day long. you just need an A&P to sign the form with a statement that the plane is safe to fly. I tried to get it for the owner. That used to be possible, but not any more, the airplane owner needs to do it. The A&P will be asked if he actually inspected the plane. All the signatures and approvals are done electronically via email. 3 Quote
Slick Nick Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 Why not just hire a ferry pilot for the hour to get it done before the annual expires? 1 Quote
AndreiC Posted October 24 Author Report Posted October 24 2 hours ago, Slick Nick said: Why not just hire a ferry pilot for the hour to get it done before the annual expires? How do you find said ferry pilot with Mooney experience (my insurance requires something like 10 hrs in type?) I tried to ask the local flight instructors, but so far did not find one with Mooney experience. Quote
wombat Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 Ask here? I'd do it for you, but I'm a little far away for it to be cost effective. Look on the MAPA website for instructors in your area. They'll probably all be willing to do a ferry flight. Quote
Jim Peace Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 Do insurance companies care if you are flying a plane out of annual? I did it years ago and never thought of insurance. Quote
PT20J Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 23 minutes ago, Jim Peace said: Do insurance companies care if you are flying a plane out of annual? I did it years ago and never thought of insurance. If you have a ferry permit it's technically airworthy for the flight so I don't see why there should be an issue. Quote
bigmo Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 14 minutes ago, PT20J said: If you have a ferry permit it's technically airworthy for the flight so I don't see why there should be an issue. I know my policy specifically excludes SFPs. Definitely worth reading the policy. OP, you're kind of in the best shape to get an SFP if you need one. The lack of local mechanics is about as solid of a case you can make. If you go this route, you will need an A&P (not an IA) to state that the aircraft is airworthy for the flight. It might be hard finding a random A&P to sign off on that as they're putting their reputation and livelihood on the line. This process should be easy, but FSDO run their little kingdoms like a king...so... By far, as mentioned, find a local-ish Mooney pilot to fly it for you before expiring. I have to think there are quite a few MS pilots near you and the ground logistics should be easy. I'd be glad to do it if I were closer. Quote
PT20J Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 5 minutes ago, bigmo said: I know my policy specifically excludes SFPs. Definitely worth reading the policy. OP, you're kind of in the best shape to get an SFP if you need one. The lack of local mechanics is about as solid of a case you can make. If you go this route, you will need an A&P (not an IA) to state that the aircraft is airworthy for the flight. It might be hard finding a random A&P to sign off on that as they're putting their reputation and livelihood on the line. This process should be easy, but FSDO run their little kingdoms like a king...so... By far, as mentioned, find a local-ish Mooney pilot to fly it for you before expiring. I have to think there are quite a few MS pilots near you and the ground logistics should be easy. I'd be glad to do it if I were closer. Well, it's always good to to read your policy . I've never had a policy with that exclusion. I just double checked my USAIG policy and it does not. Perhaps @Parker_Woodruff can weigh in on how common it is. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted October 24 Report Posted October 24 36 minutes ago, PT20J said: Well, it's always good to to read your policy . I've never had a policy with that exclusion. I just double checked my USAIG policy and it does not. Perhaps @Parker_Woodruff can weigh in on how common it is. It's a mixed bag. I believe most do not exclude it. Most companies that exclude it won't have any heartache providing a policy endorsement to allow special flight permits it as long as it's not a new policy where coverage was started with the plane being out of annual for an extended period of time. One company that requires notification always asks me "when was the most recent annual/when did the plane last fly" kind of questions. What they don't want is some chronically uninsured & not flying aircraft where they get to take the risk on that first takeoff... 2 1 Quote
Pinecone Posted October 25 Report Posted October 25 On 10/24/2024 at 4:10 PM, AndreiC said: How do you find said ferry pilot with Mooney experience (my insurance requires something like 10 hrs in type?) I tried to ask the local flight instructors, but so far did not find one with Mooney experience. Can't you use an hour of dual? The instructor demos a short XC to you as the PIC. Quote
M20F Posted October 25 Report Posted October 25 I would reflect upon 61.53 and determine if based upon cross wind component and other factors if perhaps I was being too cautious. A broken ankle is for concern and reflection but is not necessarily disqualifying. Quote
AndreiC Posted October 25 Author Report Posted October 25 Well, the end of this saga is a good one — another Mooney pilot at a nearby airport not only flew my plane, but his dad (also a Mooney pilot) came there and flew us back too. So everything is ok and done. I don’t think the idea of flying with an instructor would have worked. It’s quite obvious I could not act as PIC as I can’t operate the rudder pedals (not allowed to put any weight on the ankle). And my insurance has specific pilot experience for the PIC, which the instructor did not have. Anyway, it all worked out. Thanks for the suggestions. 8 Quote
0TreeLemur Posted October 28 Report Posted October 28 On 10/25/2024 at 6:59 PM, AndreiC said: Anyway, it all worked out. Thanks for the suggestions. Glad it worked out for you. You may have dodged a bullet. Because of an ice storm a few years ago I was unable to get my Mooney to the shop before the annual expired. That was during covid. The FSDO made me pay a DAR to travel to my field, tell me a couple of stories, and sign off on the ferry permit. The DAR flew his own aircraft to inspect mine, an hour each way, and he still got paid for his time. That's how much that cost. 2 Quote
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