Who's The Least Expensive Option WRT An Avionics Upgrade?

[GeneralT001]

The 3 main ones I know of are Garmin, Dynon and Avidyne. I'm guessing they all offer comparable equipment....but which gives the best bang for the buck? Comparing something comparable to say 2 x Garmon G5's and a GTN 650?

Edited September 25 by GeneralT001

[Ragsf15e]

10 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

The 3 main ones I know of are Garmin, Dyson and Avidyne. I'm guessing they all offer comparable equipment....but which gives the best bang for the buck? Comparing something comparable to say 2 x Garmon G5's and a GTN 650?

You going for the vacuum pump with Dyson? 

[LANCECASPER]

42 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

The 3 main ones I know of are Garmin, Dyson and Avidyne. I'm guessing they all offer comparable equipment....but which gives the best bang for the buck? Comparing something comparable to say 2 x Garmon G5's and a GTN 650?

With any of them you'll need a GPS navigator either way like an Avidyne or Garmin.

Dynon has no autopilots yet certified for Mooneys. but has nice calculator to add up what you may want to put in the panel: https://www.dynoncertified.com/aml.php

 

 

[KSMooniac]

The first decision you should make is if you want to add a modern autopilot, and then let that set you down the path of choosing equipment.  Dynon has their own J model in flight test currently, so it is expected that it should be finished and certified sometime in the not-too-distant future.  (6-36 months?)  Step down a tier and the TruTrak might be an option.  Maybe you have something now that is working fine, and could integrate with modern or semi-modern PFDs?  

Figure that out, then choose a navigator option... GPS only, GPS/NAV/COM, GPS/COM, etc.  Want to remote control a transponder or audio panel?  Already have GNS box and want to slide-in an Avidyne?  There is a good variety of options.

More important than any of those boxes is a modern engine monitor, though, and that should be at the top of the list if not already equipped.

Edited September 25 by KSMooniac

[AJ88V]

1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

The first decision you should make is if you want to add a modern autopilot, and then let set you down the path of choosing equipment.  Dynon has their own J model in flight test currently, so it is expected that it should be finished and certified sometime in the not-too-distant future.  (6-36 months?)  Step down a tier and the TruTrak might be an option.  Maybe you have something now that is working fine, and could integrate with modern or semi-modern PFDs?  

Figure that out, then choose a navigator option... GPS only, GPS/NAV/COM, GPS/COM, etc.  Want to remote control a transponder or audio panel?  Already have GNS box and want to slide-in an Avidyne?  There is a good variety of options.

More important than any of those boxes is a modern engine monitor, though, and that should be at the top of the list if not already equipped.

My panel is pretty much 1970 and no autopilot.  I'm leaning towards Dynon, but there is a big risk to counting on an autopilot being certified.  Yes, it's showing as the most 'down the road to completion' on the Dynon website, but that is no guarantee, nor is it a guarantee that the pre-J models will be certified. 

As for the engine monitor, the Dynon approach looks pretty attractive when you figure in a separate top-of-the-line engine monitor alone would add $5 - $12K installed.

[NotarPilot]

I have the Dynon system myself and I feel like the autopilot certification is imminent. I believe the last autopilot was certified in February so I just don’t see them going a year without certifying something. That’s just my opinion based on nothing. 

As for the Dynon system, I love it! One thing I really like is that it has soft buttons and knobs to do just about everything you can do using the touchscreen. I’d be happy to take anyone flying who’s looking at buying a Dynon system.

[ArtVandelay]

I went through the Dynon calculator and its 10” is more expensive then what I paid for the G3X 4 years ago. So I don’t know Garmins current prices, but it doesn’t seem to be much, I would pick the best solution, not the cheapest.

[KSMooniac]

4 years ago everything was much cheaper.    

For Dynon and Mooneys, I think everything hinges on their autopilot getting certified first, and not having servo issues second.  They should really push to get it to cover the pre-J market as well as that is perhaps the most "needy" portion of the fleet IMO.  We'll see how it goes, and what the FAA allows.  Unfortunately for them, they had to go through the Seattle ACO for their projects until last year, and after Boeing embarrassed the FAA, nothing was going to get approved in Seattle...  Last year I believe they switched to Alaska but I expect that caused a delay before additional progress was made.  

[McMooney]

if you have gns 430/530  avidyne could be nice due to reduced labor cost but if you're starting from scratch,

the most bang for the buck will be from g5s and gnc355 or gtn650xi.    next would probably be gi275s,  these are like g3x/g500 in mini form, really nice

dynon and g3x would be next but even though the equip isn't that bad,  Install cost gets ridiculous.

do you already have an autopilot ?  if not, then the gfc 500, trutrak and stec are about the only ap's available at the moment

dynon is supposedly working on an ap but who knows when/if.

 

 

 

[Schllc]

Consider your real plan for the future of your plane. If you are planning to sell within the next five years, I would be inclined to use Garmin. It’s proven, prevalent, well supported and pretty widely regarded as most favored.  What I mean is it isn’t going to turn anyone off. I really dislike aspens, it’s my personal preference, not necessarily a complaint on the quality.  I don’t know of anyone who avoids garmin when it’s already installed. 

If you are certain you’re going to keep it long term, go with whatever you want. 
I don’t have any experience with dynon, and I don’t want to denigrate the product, but aviation companies vanish at much high rates than most industries and along with no AP, I think they need a few more years before their long term service record can be established. 
Owners seem to be happy and say the product is great, but if they can’t get a real toe hold in the market and approve an AP, they won’t be around long.  

[ArtVandelay]

dynon and g3x would be next but even though the equip isn't that bad,  Install cost gets ridiculous.

Define ridiculous?

My G3X/GFC500 installation was 100 hours, I think that’s very reasonable.

[00-Negative]

What about a Dynon SkyView with G5 in lieu of Dynon's D30 backup and Garmin's GFC500 autopilot? The best of both worlds. What's appealing to me is that I can buy Dynon over the counter. The downtime quotes that I've gotten for Garmin installs are 3-6 months and I frequently see plans down longer than that.  I rarely go 2 weeks without flying.

[LANCECASPER]

17 minutes ago, 00-Negative said:

What about a Dynon SkyView with G5 in lieu of Dynon's D30 backup and Garmin's GFC500 autopilot? The best of both worlds. What's appealing to me is that I can buy Dynon over the counter. The downtime quotes that I've gotten for Garmin installs are 3-6 months and I frequently see plans down longer than that.  I rarely go 2 weeks without flying.

The Dynon STC says you need the Dynon D20 or D30 as a backup.

[McMooney]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Define ridiculous?

My G3X/GFC500 installation was 100 hours, I think that’s very reasonable.

glad you have all the money in the world.  12 to 18000 in labor for eqip that cost 10k hurts my wallet

[ArtVandelay]

glad you have all the money in the world.  12 to 18000 in labor for eqip that cost 10k hurts my wallet

Years of paying hangar rent, insurance, avgas, maintenance will dwarf the labor costs and unlike avionics upgrades you won’t get any of that money back when you sell.

[MikeOH]

48 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Years of paying hangar rent, insurance, avgas, maintenance will dwarf the labor costs and unlike avionics upgrades you won’t get any of that money back when you sell.

Hmm, good for you, but $18K in labor, let alone the equipment, covers an ENTIRE YEAR of ALL costs for me.  Hardly 'dwarfed' IMHO.  And, since when does anyone expect to get operating costs back at sale?

[ArtVandelay]

Hmm, good for you, but $18K in labor, let alone the equipment, covers an ENTIRE YEAR of ALL costs for me.  Hardly 'dwarfed' IMHO.  And, since when does anyone expect to get operating costs back at sale?

I don’t know where the $18k came from, as I said, 100 hours at $100/hr is $10k…certainly not trivial but not ridiculous by any stretch for a glass panel and autopilot installation.
I never said I expected to get operating costs back, just pointing out you do get some of the avionics upgrade costs back at sale and 10-20 years of operating costs will dwarf the net costs of a avionics upgrade.

[NotarPilot]

22 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t know where the $18k came from, as I said, 100 hours at $100/hr is $10k…certainly not trivial but not ridiculous by any stretch for a glass panel and autopilot installation.
I never said I expected to get operating costs back, just pointing out you do get some of the avionics upgrade costs back at sale and 10-20 years of operating costs will dwarf the net costs of a avionics upgrade.

I don’t know of any avionics shops in 2024 charging less than $120 an hour. And, while ridiculous, I would imagine there are some shops charging close to $180 an hour. Perhaps it depends on what region of the country you’re in but hourly rates have really skyrocketed these past few years.

[AJ88V]

Part of the appeal of a Dynon setup to me is that Dynon makes the wiring harness and an A&P can install everything. Dynon developed the system for the homebuilder crowd and made everything super easy (compared to traditional avionics).  So (if I can get my A&P to agree) I could potentially do a bunch of the work and then get my A&P/IA to do the things I'm not qualified to do.