Whelen LED Conversion

[William Munney]

I am re-doing my entire 1996 Ovation with Whelen G3 LED lighting.  Every exterior light is being replaced with LED lighting minus the small white recognition lights on the back of the wing tips (no Whelen replacement yet) and the ice light in the fuselage.  In fact, the package just arrived today.  I’ll post some install pictures and the finished product when I am done.  I called Whelen directly for advice and sent them pictures of the current configuration and they made sure I was ordering the correct part numbers and suggested some resellers.

The order came with the Whelen Black Friday 15% discount which was a big help.  My understanding is that the install is very easy and that an A&P must sign it off.  Installing the LED beacon upside down on the belly of the Ovation may require a small bit of fabrication and the rear white strobe may need an extra wire run depending on if you intend to run it as a strobe or steady white/ strobe?

Simultaneously, I am replacing the original plexiglass wing tips and the landing/ taxi light plexiglass covers with new.  The original wing tips are bubbled by heat from the forward facing white lights on the nav light assembly and the taxi/ landing “glass” is chipped and cracked by 27 years of flying.  Should be better than new, brighter and longer lasting.

Air Power has delayed delivery of my IO550G by 6 weeks so I’m completing some projects until then:  A full set of landing gear discs are on the way.  The prop goes out for overhaul next week.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by William Munney

[toto]

Nice. This sounds like a great waiting-for-AirPower project. 

[Fly Boomer]

14 minutes ago, William Munney said:

I called Whelen directly for advice and sent them pictures of the current configuration and they made sure I was ordering the correct part numbers and suggested some resellers.

I hope your resellers included the WAT dealer that is on this forum, and is a frequent  contributor (OSUAV8ER).

[William Munney]

I had a long list. They are not playing favorites.  I’m new here so I don’t know who is who.  I’m pretty sure that decision is still mine though.

Edited November 30, 2023 by William Munney

[William Munney]

8 minutes ago, toto said:

Nice. This sounds like a great waiting-for-AirPower project. 

Ha ha.  They told me it would ship in 6-8 weeks and that THAT was being conservative.  We’ll see.  Everyone gets one mulligan.  So far, they have been good to deal with.  End of January is the new delivery date.

I’m chipping away at a list I made when I bought the airplane.  Might have a squishy brake deal to chase down as well.

[LANCECASPER]

10 hours ago, William Munney said:

Simultaneously, I am replacing the original plexiglass wing tips and the landing/ taxi light plexiglass covers with new.  The original wing tips are bubbled by heat from the forward facing white lights on the nav light assembly and the taxi/ landing “glass” is chipped and cracked by 27 years of flying.  Should be better than new, brighter and longer lasting.

I have done this on a few Mooneys I've owned. Great Lakes (glap.inc) the manufacturer of these will trim them for you free of charge if you buy directly from them and send your old ones to them to be used as a pattern. Our Mooneys are hand-built and every lenses is trimmed to the opening. I highly recommend sending them the lenses since doing it by trial and error cost me a lens before I took them up on their offer. If they mess it up they can go grab another one and start over. 

I also use countersunk washers and new stainless screws to reinstall. The countersunk washer spreads the load when you are "snugging" the screws up. If you "tighten" them you will crack the new lenses. Also if your Mooney used a metal retainer on the outside of the landing/taxi lenses you do not have to re-install that. Mooney eliminated that sometime in the past 25 years. It looks much better and has less drag.

Replacing the incandescent bulbs ONCE with LED will help you to appreciate a major advantage of using "permanent" bulbs rather than having to change them when they burn out every 25 hours of continuous use. Getting your hand up there to do the work is not fun for the four new lights. Knowing that you'll never have to do it again makes it worth it. Putting your phone up inside of there and taking a picture of the retaining rings first and then referencing it makes it easier while your are feeling your way around up there.

[William Munney]

Thanks Lance!

 Hey.  Do you know if the position light on the tip of the tail will need an additional wire run or what they meant by that?

Also, I’m pretty sure my landing/ taxi plexiglass has the metal retaining frame.  No need for this?  Just screw in the new ones and go?

[PT20J]

56 minutes ago, William Munney said:

Thanks Lance!

 Hey.  Do you know if the position light on the tip of the tail will need an additional wire run or what they meant by that?

Also, I’m pretty sure my landing/ taxi plexiglass has the metal retaining frame.  No need for this?  Just screw in the new ones and go?

On later models, mooney dropped the trim plate in favor if stainless countersunk washers. I removed mine when I replaced the lenses. There is more glare at night from the top of the lens without the trim. I put a 1” strip of black vinyl auto trim tape across the top edge of the lens and that fixed it.

Skip

[Pinecone]

@OSUAV8TER is a stocking dealer.  So most times he can ship immediately.  I got all my Whelen from him.  Landing, Taxi, Tips, Tail, Recog, and a belly beacon to add.

For the lenses, GLAP quoted me 6 - 8 weeks when I needed one.  But Knots2U had them in stock.

The LED tail light is both position light and strobe.  The later Mooneys, it is only strobe.  So if you want it as an additional position light, you need to run one wire.  If you want to sync it to the other so the strobes flash together, you need to run two conductors.  

For the wing tip lights, some planes have 4 wires, some (my 252) have only 3.  If you want to sync the strobes you need 4 wires (nav, strobe, ground, and sync).

Leaving the wing tip rear lights alone means your annuciator dimmer works.  Otherwise you need to play some games, as the system uses the current draw of those lights to do the dimming.  There are LED replacements if you really want to do that.

[ArtVandelay]

On later models, mooney dropped the trim plate in favor if stainless countersunk washers. I removed mine when I replaced the lenses. There is more glare at night from the top of the lens without the trim. I put a 1” strip of black vinyl auto trim tape across the top edge of the lens and that fixed it.
Skip

I don’t notice the flare, the lights are far enough recessed I don’t see them, and new lenses shouldn’t be reflecting the light passing through them.
My AP used PRC to seal the lenses. I gained 3 knots by doing this alone.

[PT20J]

1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t notice the flare, the lights are far enough recessed I don’t see them, and new lenses shouldn’t be reflecting the light passing through them.
My AP used PRC to seal the lenses. I gained 3 knots by doing this alone.

The reason you don't see the glare is because the PRC seals the edges which is where the glare comes from (the plastic channels the light and makes the lens edge glow -- kind of like the way a fiber optic cable works). But, I didn't want to seal mine in case I ever need to replace one. Mooney doesn't seal them.

BTW, the wingtip lenses are acrylic which is more brittle but easier to trim than the landing/taxi lenses that are polycarbonate.

[William Munney]

Wow.  When did the wingtip lenses get so expensive??  Can $376 per side be right?

[GeeBee]

When you use counter sink washers as Lancecaper suggested I also recommend counter sinking the plastic hole to receive the washer. While you can drill a large hole to receive the counter sink washer a straight hole will be more likely to crack at the circumference than one that is beveled out with a counter sink. I drill first with a 1/4 inch plexiglass bit (don't use a regular bit the rake is wrong and creates stress rise in the hold)

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/plexidrill.php

 

Then I follow up with this counter sink with a 1/4" pilot

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/12-00940.php

 

The net result is the countersink washer will fit loosely in the hole clamping down on the plastic with the flat surface. The bevel of the washer should not be in contact with the plastic.

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, William Munney said:

Wow.  When did the wingtip lenses get so expensive??  Can $376 per side be right?

Yes

[William Munney]

8 hours ago, GeeBee said:

When you use counter sink washers as Lancecaper suggested I also recommend counter sinking the plastic hole to receive the washer. While you can drill a large hole to receive the counter sink washer a straight hole will be more likely to crack at the circumference than one that is beveled out with a counter sink. I drill first with a 1/4 inch plexiglass bit (don't use a regular bit the rake is wrong and creates stress rise in the hold)

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/plexidrill.php

 

Then I follow up with this counter sink with a 1/4" pilot

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/12-00940.php

 

The net result is the countersink washer will fit loosely in the hole clamping down on the plastic with the flat surface. The bevel of the washer should not be in contact with the plastic.

Ordered.  Thank you.  The wingtips are now too expensive to learn as you go..

[William Munney]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:30 AM, ArtVandelay said:

I don’t notice the flare, the lights are far enough recessed I don’t see them, and new lenses shouldn’t be reflecting the light passing through them.
My AP used PRC to seal the lenses. I gained 3 knots by doing this alone.

Are you an Importer/ exporter or just an importer?  Ha ha

Anyway, that lens install looks great.  What is PRC and, it’s hard to tell from the picture, does it overlap the lens or is it just in the small lens gap?  Also, can you get it off easily if you need to get in there or remove the lens?

[ArtVandelay]

Are you an Importer/ exporter or just an importer?  Ha ha
Anyway, that lens install looks great.  What is PRC and, it’s hard to tell from the picture, does it overlap the lens or is it just in the small lens gap?  Also, can you get it off easily if you need to get in there or remove the lens?

Short answer: polysulfide compound.

Long answer:
PR-1425 Class B is an aircraft windshield and canopy sealant. It has a service temperature range from -65°F to (-52°C) to 250°F (121°C), with intermittent excursions up to 275°F (135°C). This material is designed for fillet sealing of properly prepared glass, polycarbonate, acrylic and other aircraft sealing applications. This product is specifically formulated not to craze substrates. The cured sealant exhibits excellent resistance to UV and weather exposure.

PR-1425 Class B is a two-part, dichromate cured polysulfide compound. The uncured material is a low sag, thixotropic paste, suitable for application by extrusion gun or spatula. This sealant has excellent adhesion to common aircraft substrates.

It overlaps and isn’t easily removed as silicone, LEDs are suppose to last a long time, my mechanic put it on, so I assume he can remove it. He used it on my windows as well:

[William Munney]

Thanks “Art”.

[Fly Boomer]

On 12/2/2023 at 5:33 AM, William Munney said:

What is PRC and, it’s hard to tell from the picture, does it overlap the lens or is it just in the small lens gap?  Also, can you get it off easily if you need to get in there or remove the lens?

If you hang around here long enough you will see PRC used in different contexts because it's a common name for a company that was Courtaulds, then PRC-Desoto, then Akzo, and now part of PPG.  They make dozens of sealants for the aviation world, and possibly beyond.  Probably the most common PRC sealant for us is PR-1440 which I think is equivalent to Chemseal CS-3204 (used to seal our fuel tanks), and you can buy it from anyone you like.

[OSUAV8TER]

On 11/29/2023 at 9:01 PM, Fly Boomer said:

I hope your resellers included the WAT dealer that is on this forum, and is a frequent  contributor (OSUAV8ER).

Nope. 

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, OSUAV8TER said:

Nope. 

Unfortunate.  He made it clear that he wasn't taking suggestions:

"I had a long list. They are not playing favorites.  I’m new here so I don’t know who is who.  I’m pretty sure that decision is still mine though." (emphasis mine).

[OSUAV8TER]

That is fine and there are many other great resellers but if there is an issue you'll have to take it through them. Sometimes people buy through Aircraft Spruce, etc., then call me for help. 

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, OSUAV8TER said:

That is fine and there are many other great resellers but if there is an issue you'll have to take it through them. Sometimes people buy through Aircraft Spruce, etc., then call me for help. 

We can't get them all, but we do what we can.  Appreciate all you do here.

[OSUAV8TER]

2 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

We can't get them all, but we do what we can.  Appreciate all you do here.

I appreciate the tag! 

[William Munney]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

Unfortunate.  He made it clear that he wasn't taking suggestions:

"I had a long list. They are not playing favorites.  I’m new here so I don’t know who is who.  I’m pretty sure that decision is still mine though." (emphasis mine).

Ok.  Here we go.  I will be direct.  This is really none of your business Boomer.  This thread is about seeking advice for LED conversions and has been great.  If there is a problem please direct message me.  I left your original post alone but you don’t look like you are going to let it go.

By the time i received your not so subtle “suggestion” to buy from OSUAV8TER I had already bought the lights.  Done deal.  I honestly did not have any one in mind when i did so and would have been as happy to buy from someone here as I would have another.  My timing had to do with Whalen’s 15% sale.  Not resellers.  And, as I said, I do not yet know who is who here or who sells what.

If your original comment had to do with who is or who is not on the Whelen reseller list, I have nothing to do with that.  It’s on their website.  Take it up with them.

However, your comment also sounds like a directive to me about where i should buy.  To be clear, what i was saying, before you incorrectly put words in my mouth, was not that was I opposed to suggestions but that, ultimately, the decision to buy from one seller or another using money I have worked for remains mine.  I believe this is almost universally understood.  My statement has absolutely nothing to do with taking suggestions about resellers especially if it’s the resellers here contacting me.  

I did hear from OSUAV8TER, who seems like a nice guy, after I had already made the purchase.  He also sells Tanis cabin heaters which i considered as a way to prevent my avionics from freezing.

Like to move on with this if that’s alright.  You might be a good guy.  I have no idea.  I don’t like getting pushed around…even gently.  Probably same as you?  And that’s all I have to say about that.

Apologies to everyone else for the sidetrack.  I should have pictures before Christmas of the install.