Small flecks metal in oil filter

[Danb]

Recently did first oil change using regular oil after top overhaul, 60-70 hours. There are a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal in filter. Could this still be rings breaking in or another worrisome issue. 

[hammdo]

Pics? I don’t think that would be uncommon to have some after a top. How many oil changes since top?

-Don

[Fritz1]

magnetic or not? carbon flakes can have a shiny surface but when you pick at them with a needle they fall apart

[Danb]

Not sure I’ll check with a magnet in morning. Can’t really see them in photo, to small.

[Andy95W]

29 minutes ago, Danb said:

Recently did first oil change using regular oil after top overhaul, 60-70 hours. There are a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal in filter. Could this still be rings breaking in or another worrisome issue. 

Having “a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal” in the oil filter is very normal regardless of a recent top overhaul.

The question is how many and how small. 5-10 flecks that are 1x2 mm or smaller is not a cause for concern, particularly considering your recent top.

[PT20J]

Ref Lycoming Service Bulletin 480 for guidelines

[Danb]

51 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Having “a few extremely small flecks of shiny metal” in the oil filter is very normal regardless of a recent top overhaul.

The question is how many and how small. 5-10 flecks that are 1x2 mm or smaller is not a cause for concern, particularly considering your recent top.

Basically like salt flecks small 

[EricJ]

Some metal is normal.   As mentioned, the Lycoming service bulletin gives an idea of how much is too much, at least from their perspective, and it is  A LOT, so what you're describing sounds like potentially normal if there aren't a ton of the described flakes.

Mine was making a fair amount of metal for a while (due to a failing prop governor, although I didn't know it at the time), and both the local Lycoming rep and the local engine shop that had done the IRAN said to just keep running it and keep an eye on it.   That was good advice since it turned out to not even be the engine.

[Danb]

After reading the lycoming svc bulletin PJ referred to likely it’s normal or near normal. This stuff is scary 

[201Steve]

I’m still showing a few flecks of non ferrous per oil change after 200 hrs on overhaul.  Not really concerned with it unless I start seeing a trend of ‘mo flecks. 

[EricJ]

50 minutes ago, Danb said:

After reading the lycoming svc bulletin PJ referred to likely it’s normal or near normal. This stuff is scary 

Running a magnet over it is still worth doing just to monitor trends going forward.   Same thing with oil analysis if you're not already, especially for a fresh engine. 

[Alan Maurer]

Have had my 2008 Ovation for four years. When I first did an oil change, I had the same tiny shiny flecks of metal at oil change time. Specks were non ferrous

and was told the source could be piston pin rubbing in the cylinder walls. Did scope and never did see any scoring marks and it was suggested just to watch oil changes. 

After two or three further 30 hour oil changes , the tiny few flakes were no longer there. Oil Analysis was not helpful so never really did figure out 

where the small amount of very tiny flakes started. I suspect Mike Busch might say the same thing...just watch it...but it is certainly annoying.I. am still curious!!

Alan

N913ND

[PT20J]

A trick I learned from an A&P friend is to remove the media from the filter and compress the pleats and put it in a vice to squeeze the oil out of the media. (You might have to cut the media into 2 or 3 pieces depending on the opening of the jaws of your vice). This makes it much easier to see the metal trapped in the now dry media. 

Another check for fine ferrous material is to wash the media in a coffee can of clean solvent and then swish a magnet around in the solvent. Ferrous material will adhere to the magnet. 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

A trick I learned from an A&P friend is to remove the media from the filter and compress the pleats and put it in a vice to squeeze the oil out of the media. (You might have to cut the media into 2 or 3 pieces depending on the opening of the jaws of your vice). This makes it much easier to see the metal trapped in the now dry media. 

Another check for fine ferrous material is to wash the media in a coffee can of clean solvent and then swish a magnet around in the solvent. Ferrous material will adhere to the magnet. 

Another method is to wash it in a coffee can or something like you mention, and then strain it through a coffee filter.   All of the chips/flakes/etc will be in the filter and it's easy to run a magnet over them or take a look under a magnifying glass or microscope.

I cut the pleats out and run a magnet over them by hand.   It's a little messy, but to me more straightforward than dealing with a vice or using up solvent and coffee filters. 

It's good to have the different methods, so people can pic whatever suits them best.

[MikeOH]

How do you guys cut out the pleats?

I've been using a utility knife but, frankly, it's the most time consuming part of the job.  The blade isn't really long enough to easily get to the 'bottom' of the pleats, and I end up more or less ripping the pleats out!

Looking for a better method.

[N201MKTurbo]

18 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

How do you guys cut out the pleats?

I've been using a utility knife but, frankly, it's the most time consuming part of the job.  The blade isn't really long enough to easily get to the 'bottom' of the pleats, and I end up more or less ripping the pleats out!

Looking for a better method.

I use a hacksaw blade.

[hammdo]

Ditto…

-Don

[MikeOH]

Thanks!  Obvious solution after you told me

[EricJ]

23 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

How do you guys cut out the pleats?

I've been using a utility knife but, frankly, it's the most time consuming part of the job.  The blade isn't really long enough to easily get to the 'bottom' of the pleats, and I end up more or less ripping the pleats out!

Looking for a better method.

I just use one of these.   Keep it on a sharp section and it goes pretty quickly.    Hacksaw blade might be less risky, though.

https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-blade-utility-knife-97068.html

[PT20J]

49 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I just use one of these.   Keep it on a sharp section and it goes pretty quickly.    Hacksaw blade might be less risky, though.

https://www.harborfreight.com/snap-blade-utility-knife-97068.html

Me too, but I like the hacksaw blade idea. I scare myself every time I try to hold onto a slippery filter and wield a long, sharp blade!

[hammdo]

I use something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/AMERICAN-MUTT-TOOLS-Hacksaw-Metal/dp/B0CC3RWWSR/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?hvadid=580673637344&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=1026271&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15105830604234421712&hvtargid=kwd-433652494207&hydadcr=29012_14560063&keywords=small+hacksaw+blade&qid=1701149659&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

-Don

[FlyingDude]

All mechanics I have spoken with told me that "some metal is normal".  

https://www.lycoming.com/content/suggestions-if-metal-found-screens-or-filter

https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-bulletin-no-480-f

"Quantity found – ¼ teaspoonful or more; ground aircraft and investigate."

1/4 teaspoon is 1.23 ml.  Find a kids' tylenol syringe if you don't have a small graduated cylinder.  As was also mentioned in a Mike Busch article, that is actually A LOT of metal...  

[Greg Ellis]

AircraftSpruce.com sells one of these.  I have not used it because it is damn pricey for a glorified box cutter with an attachment to it but they are available.

Tempest AA471 Oil Filter Media Cutter | Aircraft Spruce

[FlyingDude]

2 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

damn pricey for a glorified box cutter

I use this: https://www.harborfreight.com/color-snap-blade-utility-knife-60828.html

Do I win the CBoC (cheap bastard of the century) award?

[Greg Ellis]

1 minute ago, FlyingDude said:

I use this: https://www.harborfreight.com/color-snap-blade-utility-knife-60828.html

Do I win the CBoC (cheap bastard of the century) award?

You are in a tie with @EricJ who posted one earlier in this thread.