Rear seat shoulder harness M20F

[Yannis]

I know that this has been discussed in the past but I’m struggling to find a conclusive answer.

 

can I fit a shoulder harness on the m20f rear seats and if yes which hooks and harness is the correct one. 
 

Thanks 

[Fly Boomer]

8 minutes ago, Yannis said:

I know that this has been discussed in the past but I’m struggling to find a conclusive answer.

 

can I fit a shoulder harness on the m20f rear seats and if yes which hooks and harness is the correct one. 
 

Thanks 

Looks like @M20F-1968 did it in this post:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/4365-adding-shoulder-harnesses-to-older-mooneys/

[Utah20Gflyer]

Looks like Alpha aviation has 3 point kits for the rear seats.  The real question is how to attach the shoulder strap.  The above linked thread mentioned attaching the shoulder harness to the structural bulkhead?  But I’m not sure what that means.  Does the steel cage not extend far enough rearward to use it as the attachment point?  If you can use the steel cage you could use the same type of clamp on bracket that people use for front seat retrofits. 
 

If anyone has a picture of the rear attachment points on a retrofit that would be very useful.  

[gmonnig]

Here’s a couple pictures of how they attach. I told someone on here that I’d send them photos but then forgot. Since I had to take out my interior today to get started on my engine monitors, I was able to take a couple pictures. Hope this helps. 

[Yannis]

11 hours ago, gmonnig said:

Here’s a couple pictures of how they attach. I told someone on here that I’d send them photos but then forgot. Since I had to take out my interior today to get started on my engine monitors, I was able to take a couple pictures. Hope this helps. 

Thank you for this. It really helps. Which shoulder harness did you buy ? And do you have any photos of how it looks? 

[gmonnig]

1 hour ago, Yannis said:

Thank you for this. It really helps. Which shoulder harness did you buy ? And do you have any photos of how it looks? 

I actually don't have pictures of them installed. I have the hardware but when I got the seatbelts rewebbed, I decided not to do the rear shoulder belts. If my seat was fixed I would've put them in but I have the folding rear bench seat. All those extra belts made it a mess back there and hard to fold the seat down. In my opinion it's a requirement to have the front seat shoulder belts, they'll save your life. The rear seats don't seem to be as much of a requirement. 

[gmonnig]

1 minute ago, gmonnig said:

I actually don't have pictures of them installed. I have the hardware but when I got the seatbelts rewebbed, I decided not to do the rear shoulder belts. If my seat was fixed I would've put them in but I have the folding rear bench seat. All those extra belts made it a mess back there and hard to fold the seat down. In my opinion it's a requirement to have the front seat shoulder belts, they'll save your life. The rear seats don't seem to be as much of a requirement. 

There's just a hole in the trim where the harness post comes out of. Looks identical to the from harness and attaches the same way 

[Yannis]

3 hours ago, gmonnig said:

There's just a hole in the trim where the harness post comes out of. Looks identical to the from harness and attaches the same way 

Thank you. This is a little short for correct position of the shoulder harness no? I wonder if there is a way to attach it higher. 
 

I think that for safety perspective rear seats is also life saving potentially that’s why I really want to do this installation. 

[gmonnig]

On 5/1/2023 at 2:38 PM, Yannis said:

Thank you. This is a little short for correct position of the shoulder harness no? I wonder if there is a way to attach it higher. 
 

I think that for safety perspective rear seats is also life saving potentially that’s why I really want to do this installation. 

I agree that the placement of the harness is no bueno. Another reason I left them out. For children they would be ok.

[M20F]

On 5/1/2023 at 3:38 PM, Yannis said:

I think that for safety perspective rear seats is also life saving potentially that’s why I really want to do this installation. 

Look at @gmonnig’s front seats he has a nice headrest.  Seatbelts are a system that include the seat.  In the front seat it will hold you tight and your head will be restrained against the head rest.  
 
Look at the back seat in the same picture and notice no head rests.  A 3 point is going to hold your body to the seat and your head is going to snap off and roll into the baggage compartment.  
 
You need all the components to make a 3 point work.  For the back seat a lap belt is probably sufficient and your head will bounce off the front seat headrest.  End of the day, planes are not cars.  

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

Look at the back seat in the same picture and notice no head rests.  A 3 point is going to hold your body to the seat and your head is going to snap off and roll into the baggage compartment.  

Ouch!

[kortopates]

Look at [mention=11492]gmonnig[/mention]’s front seats he has a nice headrest.  Seatbelts are a system that include the seat.  In the front seat it will hold you tight and your head will be restrained against the head rest.  
 
Look at the back seat in the same picture and notice no head rests.  A 3 point is going to hold your body to the seat and your head is going to snap off and roll into the baggage compartment.  
 
You need all the components to make a 3 point work.  For the back seat a lap belt is probably sufficient and your head will bounce off the front seat headrest.  End of the day, planes are not cars.  

There was an accident a few years ago of a 252 taking off on short field for the weight. It didn’t clear a berm. The front 2 occupants survived but the rear pax died from a broken neck. I forget if the rear seater was even wearing a lap belt but the NTSB claimed the fatal injury was due to both lack of head rest and shoulder harness. The plane was equipped with head rest but all had been removed. I was surprised how important both where to a rear seat pax. Pilot had survivable but fractured neck injuries too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Yannis]

14 hours ago, M20F said:

Look at @gmonnig’s front seats he has a nice headrest.  Seatbelts are a system that include the seat.  In the front seat it will hold you tight and your head will be restrained against the head rest.  
 
Look at the back seat in the same picture and notice no head rests.  A 3 point is going to hold your body to the seat and your head is going to snap off and roll into the baggage compartment.  
 
You need all the components to make a 3 point work.  For the back seat a lap belt is probably sufficient and your head will bounce off the front seat headrest.  End of the day, planes are not cars.  

Yes, I already got headrest on the rear seats. I think there is a way to retro fit this but I was looking for someone who done it already.