Landing power reduction

[MikeOH]

If you are passing up a 1600 foot turn-off I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you may be just a little too fast for your weight.  At my home field I routinely turn off at the 1500 foot exit with little braking.  Light weight (just me) I can make the first turn off (700 feet) if I abuse the binders.  Like Shadrach I nearly always use full flaps and chop power abeam the numbers.

[Bigdaddie]

2 hours ago, PT20J said:

You’ll get it. And at least it doesn’t call you a “retard” every time you land 

Sometimes it calls you a retard several times!

[donkaye]

5 hours ago, MikeOH said:

ILike Shadrach I nearly always use full flaps and chop power abeam the numbers.

Sorry, but it makes me cringe every time I hear the term "chop the power".  It's much more difficult to properly control descent rate when power is "chopped".  It's a good way to have inconsistent landings.  Nothing in flying non aerobatics needs to be done rapidly.  If it does, then the judgement error was made earlier (commonly known as being behind the airplane).  Flying is a graceful endeavor, and control should be made smoothly.  That's what differentiates most private pilots from the ATP.

I like to keep it simple.  For the K model 90 knots on downwind with gear down and approach flaps.  When you hit the 3° slope point as relates to your aim point, first reduce power to about 14", simultaneously hold up trim while adding full flaps, and turn base never letting the nose drop below 3°.  To prevent bad things happening with a runaway trim, flaps move faster than the trim.  Trim for hands off.  The drag of the flaps will slow the plane to 80 knots if the nose maintains the 3° slope with the runway.  Once on final, reduce speed to no less than 70 knots nominally.  Maintain speed accurately with pitch and use power to control the descent rate.  Maintain the 3° slope all the way to about 5 feet altitude from the aim point which should always be fixed in the windshield. Too often I see people not recognize what 3° looks like, let the slope decay to 2° or less and then end up dragging the airplane in with power for a sometimes smooth, but what I consider a lousy landing.  It takes practice to control the rate of flare with rate of descent to be able to touch down at the desired point with idle power and the stall warning horn activated.

[Z W]

The K model needs a lot of nose-up trim to counter-act the flaps and maintain approach speeds of 80 knots to short final, slowing further to 75 knots "over the fence" or when the runway is made.  I find it often requires moving the trim to 3/4 towards full "nose up".  I've read on Mooneyspace that each K model is different in this aspect.

If you don't trim it that way, you can still land smoothly, but it requires a lot of force pulling back on the yoke, especially when you reduce power to idle.  It also becomes almost impossible, in my experience, to keep the nose wheel up for any appreciable amount of time after the mains touch down.  Even with lots of nose-up trim, it likes to land flat.

I personally try to carry 80 knots until very short final, what I was taught to call "over the fence," to maintain better control authority for wind gusts.  Then I smoothly reduce power to idle while raising the nose, and sometimes adding more nose-up trim, to try to hit 75 knots.  If you're light you can shoot for between 70 and 75.  If you're heavy, it actually does pretty good shooting for between 75 and 80.  From there, I quit looking at the airspeed indicator and fly the plane to the ground, usually.  In high wind or gusty conditions I might need to add in a little bit of power but not for too long or you'll float.

Full flaps helps every aspect of landing.  I only use partial flaps in very strong crosswinds, and frankly, have wondered from time to time if it even really helps then.

Just be aware that if you build the habit of lots of nose-up trim for smoother landings, when you do a go-around, the tendency of the plane to pitch up violently can catch you by surprise.  It should be practiced.  You want to be hitting the nose-down trim button as you push in the throttle, and maybe even pause at less than full power (say 32" or so) until your trim catches up, while you also raise the flaps.  This all happens very fast but if you just firewall the throttle you may be fighting the yoke with both hands to keep the nose down.  I do not believe it would cause a departure stall but you'll definitely scare your passengers.

For this same reason, I fly instrument approaches with only half flaps until visual contact with the runway.  If that requires a half-flap landing then I'll accept that rather than do a go-around with full flaps in IMC.

[jlunseth]

I agree with a lot of the advice except use of full flaps. I fly in the Midwest and especially out in the Dakotas where a normal summer day is a gusty crosswind component in the high teens or 20s. It is one thing to use full flaps on a nice, calm summer day with a single digit crosswind and another thing entirely to do so when the crosswind component is at or higher than the demonstrated crosswind speed of the aircraft, which is pretty often where I fly. Full flaps in those conditions are a set up for a bounce or balloon. The problem I ran into early on in my K was that I would lull myself into landing full flaps on those nice summer days and then have myself convinced that I could pull it off out at Bismarck or Fargo on their “normal” day, and it was nothing but trouble. So I make all my landings at half flaps (the takeoff flaps condition on the console), except if I am dealing with truly stiff gusty crosswinds, say in the 20s, and then I land no flaps. The aircraft will anchor to the ground nicely with limited flaps, where on a gusty day if you happen to catch a strong gust at the moment of touchdown and your airspeed goes up as a consequence, you are right back in the air again, but now off the ground by 5 or 10 feet and at a speed insufficient to stay in the air the minute that gust stops.

I think it is normal not to be able to keep the nose wheel in the air very long after the mains touch. There is a lot of weight on a long lever with the six cylinder Conti on the nose. It can be done but it takes a ton of concentration and is beyond what I would consider normal in my K. 

I also use the throttle on final much more in my K than I ever did when flying Js. On a descent, you need to put in about 14” at the start or the plane will just not slow down enough to be at 75 at the threshold. But if you put in 14” at the start of the descent, the plane will slow and you will find you need 18-19” when you get further down the slope to keep 75. Using pitch control alone will not do it. The aircraft is in the process of dropping behind the curve. My K drops like a rock when power is pulled compared to a J, which never drops like a rock. 

I tend not to hold the three degree glideslope all the way down. As I near the runway I will fall a little lower and drag it in, gives me better airspeed control using pitch. Generally a much nicer landing than a carrier landing at a fixed three degrees. I don’t have a tail hook and my passengers generally prefer softer as do I.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Z W said:

The K model needs a lot of nose-up trim to counter-act the flaps and maintain approach speeds of 80 knots to short final, slowing further to 75 knots "over the fence" or when the runway is made.  I find it often requires moving the trim to 3/4 towards full "nose up".  I've read on Mooneyspace that each K model is different in this aspect.

If you don't trim it that way, you can still land smoothly, but it requires a lot of force pulling back on the yoke, especially when you reduce power to idle.  It also becomes almost impossible, in my experience, to keep the nose wheel up for any appreciable amount of time after the mains touch down.  Even with lots of nose-up trim, it likes to land flat.

I personally try to carry 80 knots until very short final, what I was taught to call "over the fence," to maintain better control authority for wind gusts.  Then I smoothly reduce power to idle while raising the nose, and sometimes adding more nose-up trim, to try to hit 75 knots.  If you're light you can shoot for between 70 and 75.  If you're heavy, it actually does pretty good shooting for between 75 and 80.  From there, I quit looking at the airspeed indicator and fly the plane to the ground, usually.  In high wind or gusty conditions I might need to add in a little bit of power but not for too long or you'll float.

Full flaps helps every aspect of landing.  I only use partial flaps in very strong crosswinds, and frankly, have wondered from time to time if it even really helps then.

Just be aware that if you build the habit of lots of nose-up trim for smoother landings, when you do a go-around, the tendency of the plane to pitch up violently can catch you by surprise.  It should be practiced.  You want to be hitting the nose-down trim button as you push in the throttle, and maybe even pause at less than full power (say 32" or so) until your trim catches up, while you also raise the flaps.  This all happens very fast but if you just firewall the throttle you may be fighting the yoke with both hands to keep the nose down.  I do not believe it would cause a departure stall but you'll definitely scare your passengers.

For this same reason, I fly instrument approaches with only half flaps until visual contact with the runway.  If that requires a half-flap landing then I'll accept that rather than do a go-around with full flaps in IMC.

Which Mooneys don’t need a lot of nose up trim to counter act full flaps?  Depending on load, I often run up against he nose up stop on short final in my F model. I’m not trying to be argumentative, but the nose up tendency on a go around with full flaps should not be violent. Yes one needs to manage control forces when reconfiguring but no need for drama. Many pilots struggle with slowing a Mooney for touchdown, it should be an easy task to keep one in the air. No need to firewall anything. Add some power, fly the airplane, retract flaps to take off position, fly the airplane, set climb power, fly the airplane, positive rate, gear up. If the landing must be aborted in the flare, all bets are off. You need to do what you need to do . If need be, the plane should climb just fine with everything hanging out, though speeds will be much slower.  Agree that practicing the go around is a good idea. Doing full flap take offs can also be informative. Climb speed is slow, but the view over the nose is great.

[Hank]

42 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Doing full flap take offs can also be informative. Climb speed is slow, but the view over the nose is great.

It feels so wrong, climbing without being nose up. It's like being in a elevator . . . .

[Shadrach]

8 minutes ago, Hank said:

It feels so wrong, climbing without being nose up. It's like being in a elevator . . . .

Indeed it is weird. Angle of trajectory does not at all match perceived pitch angle.  Of course if you look at the chord and camber line with the flaps fully extended, you realize just how dramatically the airfoil has been changed. Easily managed but good to understand.

[WAFI]

Invest in a GoPro, it really helped watching the landings after the fact and not just the good landings but learning from the less desirable ones.

[PT20J]

I think Don described a perfect approach, and it's similar to what I do in my J with a couple of differences:

I put the gear down mid-field downwind and reduce power to the top of the yellow arc on the tach abeam the numbers, put down full flaps, trim and hold altitude until I hit 75 KIAS at which time the rpm is usually at the bottom of the yellow arc. Shortly thereafter I turn base and then final and trim to final approach speed based on weight, usually about 65 KIAS.

There are some checkpoints I can use to check my progress:

1. I set the G3X altitude for pattern altitude and usually get the -200 ft tone about the time I turn base.

2. I usually get the G3X "500" callout shortly after turning base and use this to double check gear down.

3. There is a visual trick to judge height on base a CFI taught me long ago. If you mentally extend the runway centerline, it should appear to cross your flight path at the nose of the airplane. 

4. If you set the configuration and power and maintain altitude until the airplane slows down on downwind as I do, a pitch down of three degrees on the attitude indicator will begin a 3-degree descent.

5. The G3X flight path indicator should be on the end of the runway during final approach.

6. And, of course, many runways have visual approach slope indicators.

7. The GTN 650Xi visual approach is a good backup, especially at night.

Skip

 

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, jlunseth said:

I agree with a lot of the advice except use of full flaps. I fly in the Midwest and especially out in the Dakotas where a normal summer day is a gusty crosswind component in the high teens or 20s. It is one thing to use full flaps on a nice, calm summer day with a single digit crosswind and another thing entirely to do so when the crosswind component is at or higher than the demonstrated crosswind speed of the aircraft, which is pretty often where I fly. Full flaps in those conditions are a set up for a bounce or balloon. The problem I ran into early on in my K was that I would lull myself into landing full flaps on those nice summer days and then have myself convinced that I could pull it off out at Bismarck or Fargo on their “normal” day, and it was nothing but trouble. So I make all my landings at half flaps (the takeoff flaps condition on the console), except if I am dealing with truly stiff gusty crosswinds, say in the 20s, and then I land no flaps. The aircraft will anchor to the ground nicely with limited flaps, where on a gusty day if you happen to catch a strong gust at the moment of touchdown and your airspeed goes up as a consequence, you are right back in the air again, but now off the ground by 5 or 10 feet and at a speed insufficient to stay in the air the minute that gust stops.

I think it is normal not to be able to keep the nose wheel in the air very long after the mains touch. There is a lot of weight on a long lever with the six cylinder Conti on the nose. It can be done but it takes a ton of concentration and is beyond what I would consider normal in my K. 

I also use the throttle on final much more in my K than I ever did when flying Js. On a descent, you need to put in about 14” at the start or the plane will just not slow down enough to be at 75 at the threshold. But if you put in 14” at the start of the descent, the plane will slow and you will find you need 18-19” when you get further down the slope to keep 75. Using pitch control alone will not do it. The aircraft is in the process of dropping behind the curve. My K drops like a rock when power is pulled compared to a J, which never drops like a rock. 

I tend not to hold the three degree glideslope all the way down. As I near the runway I will fall a little lower and drag it in, gives me better airspeed control using pitch. Generally a much nicer landing than a carrier landing at a fixed three degrees. I don’t have a tail hook and my passengers generally prefer softer as do I.

I could and probably should leave this alone, as I've been accused of sometimes being too argumentative in years past.  I know there are many ways to land airplanes.  But I've been flying Mooneys for over 30 years and have estimated my number of landings both personally and as an instructor in the 25,000 range.  I would not recommend the above technique.  ALL approaches are flown behind the power curve.  The question is, "How far behind the power curve" is safe.  Laminar flow wings, as I mentioned before, rise steeply deep behind the curve.  Dragging the plane in is just not a good idea in my opinion.  Flying less than a 3° slope is not a good idea, as there just is not enough angle to do a proper flare.  Except when the crosswind component makes the crab on final more than 15°, less than full flaps is not a good idea.  In no wind conditions a pilot should be able to set up after turning final at the final approach speed, at the proper slope angle (3°), trimmed for hands off, and let the airplane fly you to the runway hands off until you begin the flare.  That pilot has Mastery of the airplane.

[PT20J]

Some thoughts on Mooney flaps:

Flaps do three things: 1) They increase the effective angle of incidence which results in a lower body angle, 2) They reduce stalling speed allowing a slower approach and landing, and 3) They increase drag allowing a steeper approach. Mooney flaps are single slotted and have a wide span affecting most of the wing. They are more effective at reducing stall speed compared to many other single engine airplanes, but they produce less drag than some others making it harder to get the Mooney to slow down if you find yourself high and fast on final. I think that's the main reason speed brakes are a popular option.

If the wind is really gusty and the runway long, I use less flaps. The reason is that I want a higher approach speed so that the gusts are reduced as a percentage of my airspeed. However, this is not strictly necessary -- it's just a preference. In gusty conditions, the airspeed will wander around and I set pitch and power so that it bottoms out at my desired approach speed.

Skip

[Bigdaddie]

Thanks for all the good feedback everyone.  It looks like I pretty much use the technique that Don recommends just by chance and gaining more experience in the airplane.  I find it interesting that people find it hard to slow the Mooney down and need speed brakes.  I have not had that experience at all.  I descend at the highest speed that air conditions will allow.  I plan on arriving in the pattern with about 20” MP and start that reduction slowly to prevent shock cooling (another topic entirely).  I rarely find myself in the pattern above gear speed.  I also use 10 kts below gear / flap speeds as my personal extension speeds (it’s an airline thing).  Abeam the numbers gear down and approach flaps 15” MP works great and IF I have flown the pattern at the correct distance from the airport, very little power adjustments are necessary.

I’m going out flying this morning and am going to try slowing below my usual 86mph / 75kts just prior to the runway.  My suspicion is that I am carrying too much speed into the flare.  I’ll report back with my findings.

[Z W]

4 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Which Mooneys don’t need a lot of nose up trim to counter act full flaps?  

I noticed a big increase in the requirement for nose-up trim moving from a C model to the K, and an equal increase in the abrupt pitch-up of the nose during a go-around.  It was maybe the most difficult part of transitioning, although it's not that difficult.  I do not know if it's the larger engine with 30 extra horsepower, the increase in fuselage length, or a combination of the two.  Never flown an F to compare, though I'd like to someday.  Cheers.

[Shadrach]

15 minutes ago, Bigdaddie said:

Thanks for all the good feedback everyone.  It looks like I pretty much use the technique that Don recommends just by chance and gaining more experience in the airplane.  I find it interesting that people find it hard to slow the Mooney down and need speed brakes.  I have not had that experience at all.  I descend at the highest speed that air conditions will allow.  I plan on arriving in the pattern with about 20” MP and start that reduction slowly to prevent shock cooling (another topic entirely).  I rarely find myself in the pattern above gear speed.  I also use 10 kts below gear / flap speeds as my personal extension speeds (it’s an airline thing).  Abeam the numbers gear down and approach flaps 15” MP works great and IF I have flown the pattern at the correct distance from the airport, very little power adjustments are necessary.

I’m going out flying this morning and am going to try slowing below my usual 86mph / 75kts just prior to the runway.  My suspicion is that I am carrying too much speed into the flare.  I’ll report back with my findings.

Yes but depending on year, your bird has a gear speed of 132kts to 140kts.  Many of us are limited to gear speed of 105kts which while not difficult manage, does require quite a bit more planning.  I too descend well into the yellow in smooth air.  I believe 75kts is about 1.3Vso at max gross for your bird.  That's good approach speed but probably better to be slowing from and not to 75kts as you approach the runway especially if you're light.

[Shadrach]

3 minutes ago, Z W said:

I noticed a big increase in the requirement for nose-up trim moving from a C model to the K, and an equal increase in the abrupt pitch-up of the nose during a go-around.  It was maybe the most difficult part of transitioning, although it's not that difficult.  I do not know if it's the larger engine with 30 extra horsepower, the increase in fuselage length, or a combination of the two.  Never flown an F to compare, though I'd like to someday.  Cheers.

I think it's perhaps a combo of those things.   I have very little time in short bodies but as I recall the numbers for the tail rigging numbers are substantially different from medium bodies. The engine lighter but then the battery is forward of the firewall as well.  Nevertheless, I think most Mooney models require substantial up trim on final with one or two aboard.  When lightly loaded, I'm at the trim stop.

[donkaye]

4 hours ago, Bigdaddie said:

I descend at the highest speed that air conditions will allow.  I plan on arriving in the pattern with about 20” MP and start that reduction slowly to prevent shock cooling (another topic entirely).  I rarely find myself in the pattern above gear speed. 

As discussed in the APS Course, shock cooling is basically a myth.  Think of it this way: The coolest you will usually find a cylinder is around 250°F.  The hottest should be around 350°F.  That's 100°F difference.  Both Lycoming and Continental say the maximum cooling rate of a cylinder per minute is 50°F.  So, even in the worst case that is only 2 minutes.  It is difficult to get my fastest cooling cylinder to do 50° per minute.  So, for efficiency, if I'm coming over the East Bay Hills in a descent, I'll enter the pattern at 160-170 knots.  I know the rate of slow down to prevent the fastest cooling cylinder from doing 50° per minute.  Hitting the speed brakes will immediately slow the plane to the 140 knot gear speed, after which time the gear is extended around 135 knots.  The plane will then rapidly slow to flap speed of 110 knots.  I'll be on base at that time.  The flaps are fully extended, and the 80 knot base speed is nailed.  Then quickly set up on final at the blue donut speed indicated on the Heads Up Display of Eagle AOA.  This is usually about 5 knots less than that speed "guessed" without the AOA.  Maintain the 3° slope to about 5 feet AGL.  Smoothly reduce power to idle while beginning the flare at such a rate that you end up touching down about 8° nose up, stall horn going off, and still able to see at least 2 center lined stripes down the runway.

[Bigdaddie]

9 minutes ago, donkaye said:

As discussed in the APS Course, shock cooling is basically a myth.  Think of it this way: The coolest you will usually find a cylinder is around 250°F.  The hottest should be around 350°F.  That's 100°F difference.  Both Lycoming and Continental say the maximum cooling rate of a cylinder per minute is 50°F.  So, even in the worst case that is only 2 minutes.  It is difficult to get my fastest cooling cylinder to do 50° per minute.  So, for efficiency, if I'm coming over the East Bay Hills in a descent, I'll enter the pattern at 160-170 knots.  I know the rate of slow down to prevent the fastest cooling cylinder from doing 50° per minute.  Hitting the speed brakes will immediately slow the plane to the 140 knot gear speed, after which time the gear is extended around 135 knots.  The plane will then rapidly slow to flap speed of 110 knots.  I'll be on base at that time.  The flaps are fully extended, and the 80 knot base speed is nailed.  Then quickly set up on final at the blue donut speed indicated on the Heads Up Display of Eagle AOA.  This is usually about 5 knots less than that speed "guessed" without the AOA.  Maintain the 3° slope to about 5 feet AGL.  Smoothly reduce power to idle while beginning the flare at such a rate that you end up touching down about 8° nose up, stall horn going off, and still able to see at least 2 center lined stripes down the runway.

Mike Busch spoke on the topic of shock cooling in one of his webcasts.  I agree with you that unless you rip the power to idle from 75% doing 190kts, you probably will not do any damage to our $60k+ investment hung on the front of our flying machines.  The problem is that I’m old school taught to reduce power only 1” MP / 1,000’.  It’s crazy how stuff that I was taught in the early 80s is difficult to purge from that sack of meat between my ears (since we’re opening a can of worms, can you say LOP operations?).

 

Since the worms are out, can you comment on turbo cool down times on a K Don?  I typically incorporate the final approach, rollout and taxi into this time.

[T. Peterson]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:23 PM, Bigdaddie said:

I have a M20K 231.  I have been playing with landing configuration such as landing with 2/3 flaps and such to improve my landings (it doesn't help that my day job is flying an Airbus A350, a little different sight picture)!  When does everyone reduce the power to idle on a normal landing (no extreme winds or crazy conditions)?  I want to pull power over the airport boundary, but the sink rate increase makes me very uncomfortable.  I tend to pull the power just prior to the numbers but I feel like I have too much energy in the flare even though I get the stall warning prior to touchdown.  I rarely bounce and feel like touchdown is at a fairly high elevator defection.  It's just the short delay between main and nose gear touchdown that gets my attention.

I am a low time Mooney pilot and did get a checkout prior to flying the airplane.  It seems like the more I fly it the worse my landings are.  I just want to be safe and thus consulting you Mooney EXPERTS.  BTW, I am not totally unexperienced as I am a CFII, MEI, ATP with about 15,000 hrs of flight time.  As I say, I'm only a little smarter than the next guy because I admit my limitations.

Thanks everyone.  The support on this forum is awesome and I am proud to be part of the Mooney community. 

I too am a relatively new Mooney pilot and my day job is flying Airbus 320 series. I totally identify with the discomfort of pulling the power to idle and forcing myself not to touch it again! I think (and I am totally open to correction) that at least part of the problem is the difference between our swept wing jet and the straight wing Mooney. In the jet we have to catch a high sink rate with power. Adding further back stick just changes the angle at which we smack the runway. The straight wing is much more effective at arresting a sink rate with increased angle of attack or back stick. Compound this with an extra 5 kts for mom and the kids and it is a perfect recipe for an ugly Mooney landing. This is because the Mooney doesn’t want to land if she has enough airspeed to fly. Try to fly her onto the runway when she doesn’t want to and she will do her own impersonation of the “Ali shuffle” or the “Flipper porpoise.” 
I am no expert and can describe the proper procedure better than I can execute it, but FWIW, I try to come over the fence at 75 kts and when sure the runway is made, pull the power to idle and leave it alone! Do not let the airplane touch the runway till the stall horn has at least chirped once. 
A lot of fellas here probably have better advice than mine and I am going to continue to work on my landings but this is what I have so far learned. I am sure you will figure it out shortly.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, donkaye said:

As discussed in the APS Course, shock cooling is basically a myth.

APS also asked why, if shock cooling is such an often-discussed concern, we are so cavalier about shock heating.  What is the temperature difference between "line up and wait" and "balls to the wall"?

[Bigdaddie]

16 minutes ago, T. Peterson said:

I too am a relatively new Mooney pilot and my day job is flying Airbus 320 series. I totally identify with the discomfort of pulling the power to idle and forcing myself not to touch it again! I think (and I am totally open to correction) that at least part of the problem is the difference between our swept wing jet and the straight wing Mooney. In the jet we have to catch a high sink rate with power. Adding further back stick just changes the angle at which we smack the runway. The straight wing is much more effective at arresting a sink rate with increased angle of attack or back stick. Compound this with an extra 5 kts for mom and the kids and it is a perfect recipe for an ugly Mooney landing. This is because the Mooney doesn’t want to land if she has enough airspeed to fly. Try to fly her onto the runway when she doesn’t want to and she will do her own impersonation of the “Ali shuffle” or the “Flipper porpoise.” 
I am no expert and can describe the proper procedure better than I can execute it, but FWIW, I try to come over the fence at 75 kts and when sure the runway is made, pull the power to idle and leave it alone! Do not let the airplane touch the runway till the stall horn has at least chirped once. 
A lot of fellas here probably have better advice than mine and I am going to continue to work on my landings but this is what I have so far learned. I am sure you will figure it out shortly.

A320 in TX - AA? I'm DL but wont hold it against you.

[T. Peterson]

7 minutes ago, Bigdaddie said:

A320 in TX - AA? I'm DL but wont hold it against you.

Spirit Airlines has a DFW base. I live just outside of Ennis which is a 65 minute drive to the airport.

Gotta say I love TX though I only got here 7 years ago. Formerly based in DTW.

[Bigdaddie]

53 minutes ago, T. Peterson said:

Spirit Airlines has a DFW base. I live just outside of Ennis which is a 65 minute drive to the airport.

Gotta say I love TX though I only got here 7 years ago. Formerly based in DTW.

I was based in DFW from like 1993-1997 flying for Wings West - American Eagle and again from 1998 - 2000 flying the MD88 Mad Dog for Delta.  I had a crash pad in Hurst near Bell Helicopter.  We had a blast but many of our adventures cannot be disclosed on a public forum.  I said I would NEVER return to Texas but being a California native and seeing how this state is progressing, a migration east is not out of the question.  Come on over to Delta.  You can teach me some Airbus stuff.  I was on the 757/767 for 18 out my 25 years here so the transition to the Airbus A350 has been a serious test of my cognitive abilities to say the least.

Take care,

Steve 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Bigdaddie
wrong city noted

[KSMooniac]

I'm not Don, but we have both drunk from the same well, and believe the data.  Turbo cool-down is also a myth.  The APS crew instrumented a turbo many, many years ago to demonstrate this.  Literally put a thermocouple on the turbo itself!  The coolest the turbo ever was after takeoff was at the point of touchdown, and every second after the wheels hit the runway it got warmer.  Sitting at a parking spot idling for any length of time just made it get hotter.  Don't do it.  The physics make sense... after a prolonged descent (lower power setting, extra airflow through the cowl) the turbo reaches a minimum temperature.  Then dramatically reduce the cooling airflow while rolling out and especially idling and it has to get warmer.  

Don also mentioned his angle of attack system... I'm a huge fan of the Alpha Systems kit and installed one on my J.  (Maybe even before Don!)  It is simple, intuitive, and extremely helpful.  It is my primary instrument for final approach airspeed control now, and I have it mounted on the forward part of my glareshield so it is always in view when landing.  No more mental gymnastics to calculate landing weight, no more "+5 knots for safety" or similar.  It works.  My landings got more consistent after using it.  Yes, you can land perfectly fine without it, but you should be adjusting your airspeed to match your landing weight for the best results.  If you always land at the same weight, that's easy, but carrying butts in the back and variable fuel or bags make a big difference!

[Fly Boomer]

58 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

Don also mentioned his angle of attack system... I'm a huge fan of the Alpha Systems kit and installed one on my J. 

I understand the value of AOA. but why Alpha?