M20J engine upgrade

[Bill_Pyles]

What is the most powerful normally aspirated engine that can be installed in an M20J without modifying the airplane and by that I mean that the standard cowling is used and no reinforcements of the airframe.  I can understand using a different motor mount if necessary.  Who has put a higher HP engine than the IO360xxxx in a J?

[aerobat95]

I dont know if anyone has done it but the IO-390 might be an option. 

http://www.lycoming.com/news-and-events/featured-stories/archive/io-390-series-engine.html

Ray

 

[danb35]

There are two upgrades I'm aware of.  The first is Rocket Engineering's Missile conversion, which bolts on a 300 HP IO-550--not sure if it alters the cowling, though.  No longer in production, though, so you'd have to find a modified plane if you wanted it.  The second is the Lyc IO-390, which adds 10 HP to give a 210 HP engine, and was recently introduced.  IMO, the extra 10 HP aren't worth the reported $70k that the upgrade costs, but YMMV.

[aerobat95]

The IO-390 doesnt cost that much does it???  If it does Lycoming is out of its mind.

[aerobat95]

Found this.....its a bit old but...

 

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/LycomingOffersNewEngineOptionForLegacyMooneys_201556-1.html

[M016576]

Quote: danb35

There are two upgrades I'm aware of.  The first is Rocket Engineering's Missile conversion, which bolts on a 300 HP IO-550--not sure if it alters the cowling, though.  No longer in production, though, so you'd have to find a modified plane if you wanted it.  The second is the Lyc IO-390, which adds 10 HP to give a 210 HP engine, and was recently introduced.  IMO, the extra 10 HP aren't worth the reported $70k that the upgrade costs, but YMMV.

[danb35]

I recall hearing that amount as a cost, but I can't at all cite a source.  Don Maxwell's shop does the upgrade, though, so would probably be a good source to check on the cost.

AFAIK, there are no airframe changes involved with the -390 compared to the -360.

[Cruiser]

Requires a new prop and baffles.

[M016576]

Ok... I found this shop that advertises doing the 390 upgrade online.  It's not 70k.  But it's also no 2-4k more.  I haven't talked to them directly, just saw this flyer.  What I don't know is if they would take a 360 core in trade for a reman'ed 390 plus cash.  If so, the price would be comparable (albeit slightly more expensive than the 360).  All in all- these prices seem more realistic than the 70k mentioned above...

 

http://gnaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/pdfs/2011-mooney-stc.pdf

 

The only question is the prop....

[OR75]

I spoke with a Lycoming rep a while ago and he said they would be working on including the McCauleys props in the STC.

Have not seen it since.

 

[jetdriven]

So it's 40k in parts with a rebuilt engine and 50k with new.  Are there rebuilt engines available?   And is he extra 2 knots worth it? 

 

I think G&Ns price includes core trade. 

[KSMooniac]

So far the newer Hartzell 2-blade Top Prop is the only approved option for the IO-390 on the M20J, so unless you already have one of those, then you'll need to buy one in addition to the new engine.

[John Pleisse]

$52k for the engine and Top prop new. Weber has done two and the head IA and test pilot tells me it is a solid 5 knots, no hype. He said, possibly more. He said it was also significantly quieter. 

[DaV8or]

Quote: jetdriven

So it's 40k in parts with a rebuilt engine and 50k with new.  Are there rebuilt engines available?   And is he extra 2 knots worth it? 

 

I think G&Ns price includes core trade. 

[fantom]

MAPA data from several years ago....search is your friend.

Lycoming was at 2009 MAPA and gave us an update on the IO-390 A3A6 STC for the J model. It should be ready next month and the E and F, I believe, will following shortly thereafter.

The conversion however, will require a Hartzell 2-blade or 3-blade propeller, work on the governor, new hoses, new motor mounts, and probably engine gauge re-calibration and oil cooler modification. Cost of the engine alone will be around $36K, and given a new prop, the other work, and installation, it sounds like a $50K+ job. Ouch!!

For that you"ll get roller tappets, angled valves, Slick mags, tuned induction, 10 more HP, another 4 knots, about a .5 GPH increase, and a 2 year warranty on labor, parts, and accessories. Your exchange core must be in operable condition. Proof again that's there's no free lunch, or cheap knot increases ;-)

Email your questions and comments to wgierke@lycoming.textron.com

[FlyDave]

There is also an STC called  "Horsepower Plus". It provides 210 HP using higher compression. Lycon did this on my Cherokee (upgrade from 150 to 160 HP and it is an EXCELLENT engine!!) and I know of 2 M20J's that have had it done (also by Lycon)  and both owners are happy with it.

Just another option.

[Bill_Pyles]

Thanks everyone, for the replies.  Looks like the IO390 is basically "it."