Folding Rear Seat

[JayWoodring]

Has anyone ever modified the back seat in a M20E to fold down? If so did you get a field approval for it that you would be able to share with me? So I can get it done for my M20E. 

[KSMooniac]

If you have the fixed bench, it isn't terrible to remove it altogether. I did that with my early J, and made a plywood "deck" to put over the cavity and make a flat floor.

Otherwise, if you're good at scrounging and have some patience, you can retrofit later model removable bucket seats from an '82+ Mooney IF you get the seats and mechanisms from a salvage airplane. That is the best mod, and would increase the hull value noticeably IMO. They add a lot of utility to any Mooney.

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[JayWoodring]

I have seen this but I talked to a FAA guy and he told me if I can find somewhat has done it already we could get it approved easy. The other route I got to hire an engineer to do a Study and it will take a long time and lots of money to get done. 

[KSMooniac]

I'm not sure why you need the FAA involved. The rear seat isn't structural, you can remove it if needed. If you want to be thorough, get your IA to make an alternate W&B for the seat out.

If you modify with later model Mooney seats, most sensible IA's would call it a minor mod and do it with a log entry. No 337 or DER required. You're taking other Mooney seats (certified!) and installing them in a Mooney. No major change there. Keep it simple!

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[Hank]

See if you can find the rear seats from a 69 or later C or E. My 1970 C has factory seats with individually reclining or fold down seat backs.

@Alan Fox, @Jerry Pressley or your favorite salvage yard. Putting in actual Mooney seats should require much less paperwork!

[smwash02]

I've attached the guide I'd found some years ago from @piperpainter.

I agree with him, it's a minor modification your A&P can perform and sign off.

Folding Mooney Seats.pdf

Edited December 15, 2021 by smwash02

[Alan Fox]

7 hours ago, smwash02 said:

I've attached the guide I'd found some years ago from @piperpainter.

I agree with him, it's a minor modification your A&P can perform and sign off.

Folding Mooney Seats.pdf 3.44 MB · 4 downloads

I wouldnt consider changing out seats a "Minor"   The appliance to hold an occupant to the structure of the aircraft , is not minor..

 

[JayWoodring]

That is what my mechanic is saying also.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

I wouldnt consider changing out seats a "Minor"   The appliance to hold an occupant to the structure of the aircraft , is not minor.

I thought the conversion only affected the seat back, which holds occupants upright but not "to" the aircraft?

But what do I know, I have 1970 factory-made individual folding seat backs, which the OP could buy and install in his E.

[carusoam]

So….

1) Let’s see if we can ask @JayWoodring what he is trying to accomplish…. With a bit more detail….

2) Jay, you came to the right place to ask the question….  The FAA gave a nice answer, not very helpful, but nice… 

3) Folding the back of the bench seat has been described really well… probably four bolts holding it in place….

4) Folding the back of the bench, doesn’t fold flat, or very nicely… but does get out of the way some….

5) The newer Mooneys, that come with all of the engineering data… can be swapped into older Mooneys…

6) the new seats, the seat bottom is easily removed, and the seat backs are easily folded really flat….

7) If you have the dough… find the newer seats…

8) If you be little dough for seats…. Find the write-up on how to get the seat back to fold down…

9) Keep both eyes open for any safety issues that may become a challenge holding people and cargo in place…

10) There is lots of time between discussions on holding things down… cargo netting and tie-downs….

 

PP thoughts only… not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[Alan Fox]

16 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I'm not sure why you need the FAA involved. The rear seat isn't structural, you can remove it if needed. If you want to be thorough, get your IA to make an alternate W&B for the seat out.

If you modify with later model Mooney seats, most sensible IA's would call it a minor mod and do it with a log entry. No 337 or DER required. You're taking other Mooney seats (certified!) and installing them in a Mooney. No major change there. Keep it simple!

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 

By this logic , I could put a bravo engine , into a C airframe???   Im all for it....  Or a E engine into a C , and sign it off as a minor ....

[KSMooniac]

No, that is clearly major as it affects performance, handling, weight and balance, etc.

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[Alan Fox]

55 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

No, that is clearly major as it affects performance, handling, weight and balance, etc.

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But its Mooney parts and on the TC !!!

[JayWoodring]

I have not been able to find newer seats to install that fold already. I have the plans that have been posted on here to do it and what I was told is that I  would have to have a 337 filled out and a field approval from the FAA and I can't get that if I can't show it would have the same  integrity as it has now with the bolts holding the seat back in place. So I was told if I can find someone that has already got the field approval I can get it approved based on that approval or have an engineer do a study on the changes. If I could find seats that are made to fold I would really try to go that route.  I just want to make sure it is legal and will not hard to put something like golf clubs or anything else that needs more room than is back there now in my plane if I want to do so and still be able to safely have my children or any person I want to put in my back seat with out having to work all day to put the seat back in the plane.

[M20F-1968]

On 12/15/2021 at 4:12 AM, JayWoodring said:

I have seen this but I talked to a FAA guy and he told me if I can find somewhat has done it already we could get it approved easy. The other route I got to hire an engineer to do a Study and it will take a long time and lots of money to get done. 

I have a 1968 F model that is highly modified (see my pics).  It has a full Ovation interior, with the Ovation rear seats as well that recline, and also with removable backs.  It did require approval and i used a DER to write said approval.  It can be done.  Probably the hardest part is to find the seats but there are damaged Ovations in salvage yards.  You might try Dodson Salvage.  They had an Ovation.  I believe the front seats have been sold.  I bought the seat belts about 1 1/2 years ago.  I have another set of Ovation rear seat belts which I may never use.  I changed them out for the newer Amsafe seat belts.  I has have approved data for the alteration.

John Breda

[JayWoodring]

Thanks M20F-1968 

[Andy95W]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:19 PM, smwash02 said:

I've attached the guide I'd found some years ago from @piperpainter.

I agree with him, it's a minor modification your A&P can perform and sign off.

Folding Mooney Seats.pdf 3.44 MB · 60 downloads

I’m “bumping” this thread to see if anyone has done this mod, and what they thought about it.  In a different thread, @Lfreebird posted a couple of pictures, hopefully he’ll chime in or I’ll DM him personally.  Thanks!

[takair]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

I’m “bumping” this thread to see if anyone has done this mod, and what they thought about it.  In a different thread, @Lfreebird posted a couple of pictures, hopefully he’ll chime in or I’ll DM him personally.  Thanks!

Pm sent

[SARNorm]

Does anyone have any photos of taking the rear seat out completely and turning the rear compartment into a larger baggage/transport area?

[M20F-1968]

On 12/14/2021 at 10:35 PM, KSMooniac said:

If you have the fixed bench, it isn't terrible to remove it altogether. I did that with my early J, and made a plywood "deck" to put over the cavity and make a flat floor.

Otherwise, if you're good at scrounging and have some patience, you can retrofit later model removable bucket seats from an '82+ Mooney IF you get the seats and mechanisms from a salvage airplane. That is the best mod, and would increase the hull value noticeably IMO. They add a lot of utility to any Mooney.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 

I retrofitted Ovation rear seats into my 1968 F model.  In fact my entire interior came from a 1998 Ovation.

John Breda

[Shadrach]

On 10/2/2024 at 5:18 AM, SARNorm said:

Does anyone have any photos of taking the rear seat out completely and turning the rear compartment into a larger baggage/transport area?

I will after I empty the cargo in my plane..

I have a 1967 M20F which came from the factory with individual folding rear seatbacks and a single bench. 

[SARNorm]

Thanks. 

[Shadrach]

13 hours ago, SARNorm said:

Thanks. 

For scale, the end of second row bar is about even with the back of the pilot seat

[SARNorm]

Ross- Very cool! Thanks for sharing. There is quite a bit of space back there. My wife and I want to fly with our dogs and it makes sense for us and our mission to convert the rear seats into a cargo area. I appreciate your efforts with the photos. Norm