JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 Hi All,I have a 75 C model. In late 75 the plane went back to Mooney for gusset to be added to the engine mount and replacement of the gear actuator. The log entry just states it was replaced and notes the new serial number of the actuator not the make. I believe there are dukes, Eaton, Mooney and plessley. Can any of you owners or mechanics identify which one I have. Thank you in advance! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
carusoam Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 While you wait for a response… There is a parts manual around here somewhere… What part number does it say on the label? Looks like the camera focussed on something other than the label… Best regards, -a- Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 Yeah it’s strange … the log just listed the new serial number. No part number. I’ll post the log entry too.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 It doesn’t look like either of these two.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 I’m sorry the label on the actuator for the part number is blank too. It did not look as though it was printed and wore off. Looked like nothing was ever stamped or written there originally.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
carusoam Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 See if @M20Doc is in the neighborhood… (identifying M20C gear system manufacturer… from pics.) Best regards, -a- Quote
ArtVandelay Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 It’s not a Vickers (Eaton), or any other model used by Js. Quote
Vance Harral Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 That is an LA11C2114 actuator made by ITT, same vintage as in our 1976 M20F. The ITT actuators (red anodized) replaced the older Dukes actuator (blue anodized) when the latter became persona non-grata. But the initial ITT LA11C2110 had the same issues as the Dukes, and was replaced by the LA11C2114. Unclear from your log book entry if your replacement was a Dukes -> ITT swap, or an LA11C2110 -> LA11C2114 swap. The LA11C2114 is an interesting animal. It's not actually called out by part number in Service Bulletin M20-190B, and AD 75-04-09 and AD 75-23-04 don't refer to it either. I think, technically, the gear inspections don't apply to this specific actuator. But we do 'em anyway, as all these actuators have the same internal gear set, and are subject to the problems that M20-190B covers. 2 Quote
carusoam Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 Nice work Vance! Looks like that cable holder may be blocking the part of the label that says ITT on it…. Does look like a slightly different label too… hard to say with the holder covering part of it… Best regards, -a- Quote
carusoam Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 @JWJR look what Vance just brought in, above… Best regards, -a- Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 Yes …Thanks to all three of you that replied especially Vance. It’s kinda late so I’ll save my follow up questions until tomorrow. Thanks Again! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 Follow up questions for Vance1) So this actuator is not included in the no back spring clutch spring inspect/replace …. Is it correct that that’s just for the later Mooney models with a Eaton?2) Any chance the replacement actuator ( the one we both have) came with 40:1 gears back in 75or76 I timed mine up and down and it’s exactly 6 seconds to retract and about 5 seconds to deploy. No log entry for 40:1 replacement though.3) There is no grease fitting to lube it like the procedure published for the dukes. Can it be lubed while still on the plane? If so are there published procedures to do so?4) are your gears still original or did you have to replace them? You mentioned you follow the SB and remove it from the plane, clean out the old grease , inspect and then add grease with additive. Have you found any wear of your gears?Thanks Again!!!!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Vance Harral Posted October 12, 2021 Report Posted October 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, JWJR said: 1) So this actuator is not included in the no back spring clutch spring inspect/replace …. Is it correct that that’s just for the later Mooney models with a Eaton? Correct, this type of actuator does not have the no-back-spring clutch problem. It has a different problem, which is internal gears that slowly wear over time, and are subject to SB M20-190B inspections. 17 minutes ago, JWJR said: 2) Any chance the replacement actuator ( the one we both have) came with 40:1 gears back in 75or76 I timed mine up and down and it’s exactly 6 seconds to retract and about 5 seconds to deploy. No log entry for 40:1 replacement though. No chance your actuator had 40:1 gears in the mid-70s. Your 5-6 second retract time is somewhat indicative of 20:1 gears, but actual retract time varies, because it's a function of both the gear ratio, and the overall health of your electrical system and wiring. A better indicator is how many cranks of the emergency extension system are required to move the gear from fully up to fully down. It'll be about 75 revolutions with the 20:1 gears, about 150 revolutions with the 40:1 gears. 20 minutes ago, JWJR said: 3) There is no grease fitting to lube it like the procedure published for the dukes. Can it be lubed while still on the plane? If so are there published procedures to do so? I've never figured out a practical way to inject new grease into the gear set without removing it from the airplane. People speak of removing two of the four bolts from the gear train housing, and squirting grease in one until it comes out the other. But the passage through the gears is very narrow, and it requires extremely high pressure to do this - higher than I've ever been able to achieve with a simple cone nozzle on a grease gun, even with the actuator out of the airplane. Instead, I only grease the mechanism when the actuator is removed from the airplane and on the bench (which you do periodically anyway per the M20-190B inspection). The technique I use exploits the fact that in addition to the 4 AN bolts holding the mechanism together, there is a large, hex-head end cap which can be removed to see the pinion gear. I open everything up, manually pack grease in as best as I can, install three of the four bolts, then pack extra grease into the hole where the end cap is located. As the end cap is screwed back in place, it provides high pressure that squeezes grease through the gears and out the 4th AN bolt hole which I leave open. Then, you must dig enough grease out of the remaining AN bolt hole to make room for the final bolt before installing it. If you don't do this, the bolt will experience hydraulic lock when you're tightening it, and strip (ask me how I know!) 28 minutes ago, JWJR said: 4) are your gears still original or did you have to replace them? You mentioned you follow the SB and remove it from the plane, clean out the old grease , inspect and then add grease with additive. Have you found any wear of your gears? We bought the airplane in 2004 with 1690 hours on the airframe, and the original 20:1 gears in the actuator. On the first M20-190B inspection, we found the gear set worn, but within limits. The actuator failed the M20-190B inspection (greater than 1/2 tooth backlash) in 2009, with 2200 hours on the airframe. At that time, we sent the actuator to LASAR, and they both overhauled the electric motor (new brushes mainly), and installed the 40:1 gear set. Since that time, we've observed some light wear on the 40:1 set, but nowhere near needing replacement. Now at 3200 hours and I do not expect to have to replace the 40:1 gears in my lifetime. Note that our airplane is primarily flown locally, and probably sees 1-2 gear cycles every hour, as opposed to cross-country machines that might only see one gear cycle every 2-3 hours. 2 Quote
JWJR Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Posted October 12, 2021 Thank you for your time and detailed answers! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
carusoam Posted October 13, 2021 Report Posted October 13, 2021 Great gear and ratio details and the differences in wear Vance! Best regards, -a- Quote
Yetti Posted October 13, 2021 Report Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) Vance #FTW Lube the rest of the gear well with all the zerts. Also disassembly and grease the E gear disconnect. and you will probably need a ground down 7/16 long socket to get the bolt out. Edited October 13, 2021 by Yetti Quote
JWJR Posted October 13, 2021 Author Report Posted October 13, 2021 The disconnect… is that at the actuator or in cabin where the engage lever is?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Yetti Posted October 15, 2021 Report Posted October 15, 2021 On 10/13/2021 at 5:29 PM, JWJR said: The disconnect… is that at the actuator or in cabin where the engage lever is? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk With the lever that the bowden cable attaches too. And the spring Quote
JWJR Posted October 24, 2021 Author Report Posted October 24, 2021 Any advice on how to lube /service the ball nut? How difficult is it to put the ball bearings back if taken apart for inspection?Thanks. -JW-Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.