S-TEC 3100 autopilot upgrade redux

[Danlj]

It's been almost 4 years since Barry Leblanc brought up the 3100. 15 owners showed some interest, but most failed to put up a deposit, so the STC was not pursued.

Any Mooney M20 is possible;
  An STC is required to install this new autopilot.
  stec3100.genesys-aerosystems.com/310pilot
  Genesys is interested in pursuing an STC for the M20 series.
  They need 15 of us to get this done (minimum), and one plane (sorta near Mineral Wells, TX) for testing.
  They proceed after they have deposits from at least 15.
   To upgrade from the S-TEC 60-2 is going to be ~$11k-$15k list + installation. The servos are re-used.
This will be less costly than going full Garmin from an S-TEC.
  Contact Zach Sands if interested.
Zach.sands@genesys-aerosystems.com
mobile = 1 940-654-0534

[cbarry]

I have a 2001 M20S with the STEC 30 that might make a good candidate for the test plane.  I have been contemplating pulling the STEC 30 and going the GFC500 plus G5(s) route, but the 3100 would make a nice upgrade from the 30 for sure.

[Guest]

A client of mine with a Cessna twin upgraded his S-Tec 55 to a 3100.  It’s been nothing but trouble, back to the shop numerous times for replacement components.  It still doesn’t function well, he’s considering pulling if and installing a Garmin.

Clarence

[carusoam]

6 hours ago, Danlj said:

It's been almost 4 years since Barry Leblanc brought up the 3100. 15 owners showed some interest, but most failed to put up a deposit, so the STC was not pursued.

Any Mooney M20 is possible;
  An STC is required to install this new autopilot.
  stec3100.genesys-aerosystems.com/310pilot
  Genesys is interested in pursuing an STC for the M20 series.
  They need 15 of us to get this done (minimum), and one plane (sorta near Mineral Wells, TX) for testing.
  They proceed after they have deposits from at least 15.
   To upgrade from the S-TEC 60-2 is going to be ~$11k-$15k list + installation. The servos are re-used.
This will be less costly than going full Garmin from an S-TEC.
  Contact Zach Sands if interested.
Zach.sands@genesys-aerosystems.com
mobile = 1 940-654-0534

Welcome aboard Danlj…

Let’s start anew… 

I was really put off by the approach Barry Leblanc used when he came by four years ago…

You may want to study that approach to see why it failed miserably….

You may want to ask why it has taken four years to try that again…

Its possible that Mooney owners weren’t interested… or didn’t have the money… or (pick a reason thrown around at the STec shop)

The next company to come by was selling something called a GFC500…

Something you are probably familiar with?

That company has written quite a few STC documents and amendments to cover planes from short body Mooneys to Long Body Mooneys… 1965 to present… and even a few prior to 1965….

Did I tell you each STC was handled individually with planes supplied by existing owners…?

If you would like, I can point you towards a successful product launch that has worked around here for Mooney owners looking for Auto pilots for their birds…

It was thoroughly disappointing to see STec drop the ball when it came to launching the 3100…

Know that there is interest by certain Mooney owners for the STec product…. There were nearly 15 owners that would commit…

Unfortunately that list has grown smaller over the years… one guy died waiting… others have bought that GFC500 thing…

 

Engage with the MS community… be humble… introduce yourself…

Lets discuss what you have…

What you can do for the Mooney community…

There are enough Mooney owners around here that have the interest and the means to install an STec AP… it is far more than 15…

Put this project in the hands of somebody that will take interest in the STec success… not somebody that has passed the message to call somebody else…

Lets not repeat the four year old debacle…

How does this four year old system compare in price and performance to that other system that is getting installed lately?

Have there been any updates over the last four years?

 

On the other side…  there is that TruTrak / BK AP…  expect to have a response / comparison to that as well…  their plan is coming due soon…

I think BK said next Q…   

 

Let us know what you are thinking… send me a PM if you are wondering my thoughts…

This ancient method of customer approach is exasperatingly dull…  dull doesn’t sell avionics anymore… 

Connect, communicate, join the community… be a part of the team…

If you want to see successful approaches that avionics companies use around here we can point them out as well…

The GFC guys have a presence around here…  and for their key Web Marketing guy… we know where he hangs out, down the hall at BeechSpace… 

The most hands-on are PSEngineering, And Electronics International… highly technical info with quick answers…

Our BK guy has probably supplied an update every other month…

Where do you want to go?

PP thoughts only, not an avionics sales guy…  hey, we have avionics sales guys around here as well… daily presence for Avidyne… 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[carusoam]

One question…

How does one STC fit Mooney Models A - V?

That’s about 20 different models…

1) Three different airframe lengths…

2) 180hp to 350hp engines… NA, TC’d, and TN’d…

3) MGTOW range in the 2 - 3+ kLBs… possibly going out to the 3600 LB range in the future…

4) Altitudes from SL to the FLs, even the high 20+k’ range… Rockets may be certified to about 28k’

5) Does that include all of the variations… like Missiles, Rockets, and Fiki birds?

Sounds awfully simple…

1) Get 15 deposits…

2) Write an STC around one example airframe…

3) Promise it will fit 20 different airframes X number of engines…

4) Put a timeline on this as if you have done it before…

5) Mention the Mooney that was in your shop this week for extra points…

6) Might want to look up which Mooney was in your shop, you can find it’s owner on MS!

Or does that single STC leave off a bunch of different Mooney models?

Best regards,

-a-

[steingar]

I remember that.  Dude wanted ten grand for an unproven autopilot that's been delayed for years and even switched companies.  I did get a nice T-shirt though.

[Tracker]

Hello,  I am new to Mooney space.  I have a  Mooney 2005, with G1000s and an stec 55x.  I love my Mooney .  My only issue has been a reoccurring problem with the autopilot.  I think the trim servo  stresses the computer and both end up failing.  Hopefully the problem is fixed with a servo with less of a current draw.  Stec/genesys has been good about things.  Hopefully the fix works but my electric pitch trim is slow (a side effect of the fix).  I explored switching to the Garmin but there is no stc for aircraft with G1000’s.  It would be possible to do under factory drawings but no one has gotten back to me from Mooney after an initial response.  My view is I am a custodian of beautiful and utilitarian bit of technology and will pay to keep it current.  I would be interested in upgrading to a rate based computer.  I would support getting the stec upgrade with a deposit but I am a bit too new to be form an opinion if it is feasible.  Looking for advice.  

[DXB]

I'd be interested if the STC cover the short bodies and also can use the servos from my STEC-30 in my C. It would be great for us and the market in general to have more alternatives to the GFC500 made by big G, whose closed system drives selection of a lot of their other avionics components when considering an autopilot. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Tracker said:

Hello,  I am new to Mooney space.  I have a  Mooney 2005, with G1000s and an stec 55x.  I love my Mooney .  My only issue has been a reoccurring problem with the autopilot.  I think the trim servo  stresses the computer and both end up failing.  Hopefully the problem is fixed with a servo with less of a current draw.  Stec/genesys has been good about things.  Hopefully the fix works but my electric pitch trim is slow (a side effect of the fix).  I explored switching to the Garmin but there is no stc for aircraft with G1000’s.  It would be possible to do under factory drawings but no one has gotten back to me from Mooney after an initial response.  My view is I am a custodian of beautiful and utilitarian bit of technology and will pay to keep it current.  I would be interested in upgrading to a rate based computer.  I would support getting the stec upgrade with a deposit but I am a bit too new to be form an opinion if it is feasible.  Looking for advice.  

Hey, I know that plane!  Hi Sam.

Clarence

[Rwsavory]

Too little, too late.    

[PJClark]

22 hours ago, Danlj said:

   To upgrade from the S-TEC 60-2 is going to be ~$11k-$15k list + installation. The servos are re-used.

May be a tough sell. My GFC 500 with brand new servos 2 axis plus pitch trim, including G5 backup instrument, was just under $17k.  Autopilot with pitch trim only, (ie you already have a G5), only $13,500. That's installed. Today.

[amillet]

2 hours ago, PJClark said:

May be a tough sell. My GFC 500 with brand new servos 2 axis plus pitch trim, including G5 backup instrument, was just under $17k.  Autopilot with pitch trim only, (ie you already have a G5), only $13,500. That's installed. Today.

What shop?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Rwsavory said:

Too little, too late.    

For G-1000 equipped airplanes there is no path to a Garmin autopilot so an update to the S-Tec 3100 is the only option at this time.  For non G-1000 Garmin is a logical choice

Clarence

[Danb]

Doc, isn’t the GFC700 still available for the 1000 series?

[PJClark]

@amillet Advanced Aero Technologies Group, Greeley, CO

[Mooney in Oz]

On 9/24/2021 at 5:56 PM, carusoam said:

I was really put off by the approach Barry Leblanc used when he came by four years ago…

I was too, by his incessant copying and pasting same old ads at the end of his emails. 

Then there was the Director Sales and Marketing rep Jamie Luster who repeatedly ignored email inquiries.

A good way to turn off potential customers.

[wingslevel]

Interesting discussion for me - first time poster - former C and M owner - just sold a cheyenne and looking at long bodies....

My preference has been DX series - avoiding GX for this very issue

Would it be totally crazy, or even legal to buy a GX and just tear it all out? Put in a g3x, gfc500, 2 garmin navigators of your choice and call it a day?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Danb said:

Doc, isn’t the GFC700 still available for the 1000 series?

It was offered by Mooney at one time along with a WAAS upgrade, some took them up on the deal many did not.  Those that did not are essentially abandoned now.

Clarence

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

I was too, by his incessant copying and pasting same old ads at the end of his emails. 

Then there was the Director Sales and Marketing rep Jamie Luster who repeatedly ignored email inquiries.

A good way to turn off potential customers.

S-Tec is unique to deal with.  A while ago they were looking for a Comanche to use in certifying their autopilot.  A Comanche 400 would have cover all models below and simplify certification, I discussed offering my 400 to them.  It would be gone for about 3 month, with unknown pilots flying it, doing who knows what to it.  In return I would get a small discount on the autopilot they installed, I respectfully declined their offer.

When my current S-Tec dies I’ll have a Garmin installed.

Clarence

[Niko182]

31 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

In return I would get a small discount on the autopilot they installed, I respectfully declined their offer.

Pretty sure garmin gives the autopilot away for free if they certify it in your plane.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

Pretty sure garmin gives the autopilot away for free if they certify it in your plane.

I may have to take them up on this, so far they have one certified for all models except the 400.

Clarence

[EricJ]

45 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I may have to take them up on this, so far they have one certified for all models except the 400.

Clarence

If they're all already done but the 400s, and that's such a small market, you'll probably have to pay a lot extra. 

[Marauder]

I was too, by his incessant copying and pasting same old ads at the end of his emails. 
Then there was the Director Sales and Marketing rep Jamie Luster who repeatedly ignored email inquiries.
A good way to turn off potential customers.

I was one of those who wrote several emails to the “Director of Fails”. Never even received acknowledgment that she received my emails. When you are competing in a market with the likes of Garmin, you need to have a customer centric approach.

My 60-2 soldiers on. But when it comes to replacement time, the 3100, even if available, won’t be on my short list. That exchange with Barry was ridiculous. If he worked in my sales organization, he’d be gone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[MatthiasArnold]

Somewhat stuck with the S-Tec 55X on my WAAS enabled /O2 GX.
As long as the A/P continues to operate as he currently does - all good.

Recalling the conversation thread on MS with Barry app. 2 years ago (besides all the things already stated in the current thread):
As an electrical engineer I still wonder why they did not make the 3100 compatible with the 55X. I'm aware of the differences between rate-based and attitude-based A/Ps. However, there would have been ways to make it close to a slide-in replacement.. but they designed it in a different way.

If, if, if, .. obviously it is what it is.

[rbridges]

On 9/23/2021 at 10:00 PM, cbarry said:

I have a 2001 M20S with the STEC 30 that might make a good candidate for the test plane.  I have been contemplating pulling the STEC 30 and going the GFC500 plus G5(s) route, but the 3100 would make a nice upgrade from the 30 for sure.

I've got a 50, but I'm trying to figure how much cheaper it is vs gfc500. I know you don't need a g5, but you have to check servos and reinstall them.  Does their price include any servo overhauls?  And aren't the Garmin servos considered to be better?