Can modern avionics be hacked?

[GeeBee]

Locked doors are for honest people.

 

[Yetti]

If you want to hack something...   I have considered taking a look but Dynon provides chart updates Free.   The charts are available free on the FAA website.   So then it would just be putting them in the correct Garmin Format.

[squeaky.stow]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

I still think that flight they never found was hacked from the back seats.  GPS jammer and a new Navaid signal.  too much down the Magenta line and no return.

If you jam the GPS on a 777 (or any modern airliner) the FMS automatically reverts to the next best navigation method, which is usually DME/DME. If there are no radio nav sources it continues on IRS-only which is still very accurate but will drift over time. But even with drift it will be accurate to within 10 miles for longer than the your fuel will last most of the time. 
I imagine it is theoretically possible to modify an FMC route if you hacked into the FMS, but there is no wireless way to do that because the FMS has no wireless capability. And even if it could be hacked, airline pilots do not just go to sleep once the route is programmed. The entire flight is a continuing process of monitoring time and fuel over waypoints and passing position reports to company. Unless you WANT to disappear. That disappearance was engineered from the front left seat, including the disabling of ADS-C to prevent tracking. That can only be done by pulling a circuit breaker. We will never know why.

[Yetti]

15 minutes ago, squeaky.stow said:

If you jam the GPS on a 777 (or any modern airliner) the FMS automatically reverts to the next best navigation method, which is usually DME/DME. If there are no radio nav sources it continues on IRS-only which is still very accurate but will drift over time. But even with drift it will be accurate to within 10 miles for longer than the your fuel will last most of the time. 
I imagine it is theoretically possible to modify an FMC route if you hacked into the FMS, but there is no wireless way to do that because the FMS has no wireless capability. And even if it could be hacked, airline pilots do not just go to sleep once the route is programmed. The entire flight is a continuing process of monitoring time and fuel over waypoints and passing position reports to company. Unless you WANT to disappear. That disappearance was engineered from the front left seat, including the disabling of ADS-C to prevent tracking. That can only be done by pulling a circuit breaker. We will never know why.

I found it strange that these people were on the plane.  considering what their company does.  https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/03/09/20-austin-based-company-employees-on-missing-flight/

 

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, squeaky.stow said:

If you jam the GPS on a 777 (or any modern airliner) the FMS automatically reverts to the next best navigation method, which is usually DME/DME. If there are no radio nav sources it continues on IRS-only which is still very accurate but will drift over time. But even with drift it will be accurate to within 10 miles for longer than the your fuel will last most of the time. 
I imagine it is theoretically possible to modify an FMC route if you hacked into the FMS, but there is no wireless way to do that because the FMS has no wireless capability. And even if it could be hacked, airline pilots do not just go to sleep once the route is programmed. The entire flight is a continuing process of monitoring time and fuel over waypoints and passing position reports to company. Unless you WANT to disappear. That disappearance was engineered from the front left seat, including the disabling of ADS-C to prevent tracking. That can only be done by pulling a circuit breaker. We will never know why.

Unless it started at the right seat. I can think of at least 2 scenarios, where the crew was overwhelmed. Without data, I'm not blaming anyone, but I do think it interesting that nobody will verify that the Boeing SB and AD which caused this fire was accomplished on the airplane. Not saying that is conclusive, but neither is blaming the Captain. We simply don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_667#/media/File:EgyptAir_Flight_667_fuselage_damage_-_29_July_2011.jpeg

[PeteMc]

51 minutes ago, Yetti said:

I found it strange that these people were on the plane.  considering what their company does.

 

HA!...  Not strange at all.  I used to travel a fair amount and I can't tell you how many times I've been on flights full with co-workers or my clients.  When going to conventions you obviously try to pick the fastest and quickest flight.  But pending how big the convention is, when you get approval and if you're doing the booking or a travel department is, you can end up flying all sorts of routes.  BUT, you'll often still see a lot of other people going to the same convention as your flight may still be one of the only options. 

Once got booked by a UN sub from Costa Rica to Zmbabwe via India.  So I'd always assume no intrigue and more human intervention.

 

[squeaky.stow]

19 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

but neither is blaming the Captain

Guess I should have qualified my statement as opinion only. If he did do it deliberately, we will never know why. We will also never know whether he did or did not cause the disappearance. What I am sure of from the known facts is that that airplane was deliberately flown off the planned route and in a manner that strongly suggests an attempt to prevent it from being tracked. Somebody deliberately did that, and the only way I know of to do that, speaking as a former B777 pilot, is from inside the flight deck.

[GeeBee]

Look, I've got 40 years of line experience in both Boeing and Airbus heavies. So we can all zip our pants up now that we have compared.  Here is the problem with what you are doing.

The NRA is wildly successful at defending firearms because we don't throw our brothers overboard. The duck hunter knows when he supports the ban of semi-automatic weapons, they will come for him next. Equally so, the AR-15 owner knows that PETA is a threat to the duck hunter. So we cover each other, without reservation. 

For some reason, pilots be they professional or amateur, because they want to display their knowledge or other personal reasons are always very anxious to throw their brothers to the wolves. Think about it. If your airplane suddenly disappeared over the Pacific, without CVR or FDR data, would you really want the kind of speculation that the media has placed upon this crew? Really? When was the last time you were directly involved with a newsworthy event and it was correctly reported? Could you withstand the posthumous dissection of your life every night for weeks on end by the supposedly "unerring"  Don Lemmon or the self aggrandizing Richard Quest on CNN? 

I think there are a number of viable scenarios which both indict, and clear, indeed maybe laud this Captain. You know as well as I do the difference between Champ and Chump is one vowel. Before we bestow vowels, let's learn the facts and until then all we can do is say without evidence, it is a mystery. Don't add fuel to the funeral pyre of our profession. There are enough influencers and ratings pimps trying to do that already.

 

 

 

[squeaky.stow]

 

11 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

So we can all zip our pants up now that we have compared.

Wow. 
I try to share my opinions and experiences politely and respectfully on this forum. 
Not sure how to respond to this.

[carusoam]

Some things just don’t get responses...

Often, we can accidentally step on somebody’s toes without knowing what we did or how we did it...

There is no way to gauge when we have made a subtle mistake...

 

That would take a ton of reading backwards...

While there is still a ton of reading forwards to get through...

 

Do your best to maintain respect for everybody...

Every now and then expect that you have dropped the ball too...  it happens.

 

So many things can be interpreted / misinterpreted in multiple ways...

We are not all in the same age range, working for the same company, living in the same country, or even speaking the same primary language...

apologize and move on...

accept an apology and move on...

be forgiving and move on...

If it is important, ask for clarification...

If it isn’t important... decide on how best to move on...

 

In the end... we still want to be here tomorrow...

Best regards,

-a-

[chriscalandro]

Maybe there are ways of leaving hacking devices in the chemtrails of other airplanes, and when another airplane isn’t spraying it controls the chemtrails of that airplane. 
 

[N201MKTurbo]

12 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

Maybe there are ways of leaving hacking devices in the chemtrails of other airplanes, and when another airplane isn’t spraying it controls the chemtrails of that airplane. 
 

Yea, I read about that it is a thing. Luckily us Mooney drivers don't fly at the contrail levels and our chem spray systems are too small for then to bother with!

[GeeBee]

Ah, the chemtrail switch. I had someone show me a picture of the low pressure lights on the fuel boost pumps of a 737 and tell me that was definitive proof they existed. I told her to send it to Don Lemmon.