cliffy Posted December 11, 2020 Report Posted December 11, 2020 Bill Wheat told me he got into a 5 to 6 turn spin and almost didn't get out Said he didn't want to do it again. 1 1 Quote
oldguyscanfly Posted December 11, 2020 Report Posted December 11, 2020 Some of the stalling descriptions I've read here are not at all like my 65E. I've found her stall characteristics not a lot different than other aircraft I've flown. Good warning buffet, and a fairly gentle break. Does require a bit of a pull when my 250lb son is with me:) Feet need to dance a bit to keep wings level though. I do have a full set of VG's, and have been wondering how much they enhance slow speed/stall characteristics, since I have nothing to compare too. I learned to fly in a C-180, and every lesson for the first 10-15 hours always included what my instructor called "rudder exercise stalls"- holding in a stall and keeping the wings level using rudder. 47 years later I still think it was very valuable stall training. Quote
carusoam Posted December 11, 2020 Report Posted December 11, 2020 This is a fun summary... with some history lessons of things that could be done better... 1) Setting up for comfortable stalls with gentle recoveries may not mimic real life.... True. 2) The reason for comfy stalls in a Mooney... is for the few people that are uncomfortable with stalls to begin with... 3) Ease into stalls first... or just avoid them altogether... recognize the signs, apply the procedures... 4) Some Mooneys are better set up for casual stalls than others... True. 5) Hmmm... crappy sensor use, have caused an air bus, and a pair of Boeings to either stall continuously (falling leaf) at altitude, or avoid stalling, all the way to the ground... Throw the faulty instrument usage (the way they were used in the construction) on the long list of company design failures like side saddle fuel tanks, rear mounted fuel caps, faulty ignition switches... and vehicles that like to roll over at slow speeds... or something with uncommanded acceleration... or a bridge that didn’t account for winds over its nice arched wing shape... Now imagine for a moment... you are driving a Pinto across the Tacoma Narrows bridge... with an Audi 5000 in close trail... you have climbed into IMC... when you suddenly see an oncoming Chevy truck skid sideways while crossing into your lane... the wind is steadily blowing with precision and galloping gurdy is showing her best harmonics... Do you... a) Hit brakes, trailing car meets your fuel cap... b ) Don’t hit brakes /Hit Chevy, Last sight is the Chevy fuel cap getting larger... c) keep cruising... make it snappy the 5000 is quite the random accelerater... d) you are going so fast you are now airborne over the waves in gurdy’s road bed... e) How do you get a Pinto to recover at the bottom of the spin? Do you just rely on the airbags to deploy... hmmm... that’s the faulty ignition switch... the airbags won’t deploy... Its a trick question... GM had the faulty switches... The Pinto was a Ford product... and was too old to have airbags to deploy anyway... 6) Intentional stall spin execution in IMC was always a discussion amongst young CFIs in the 90s... where I was learning to fly... In the event of haphazardly flying into IMC with failed instruments, stall/spin/recover before hitting the ground is my ticket out... 7) those young bucks are probably discussing glass panels and AHRS for their Mooneys today... 8) Nasty stalls can eat up 1k’ of altitude... 9) If you get a secondary stall... and it’s nasty too... 2k’ is a real possibility... 10) Plan for the worst case, then throw on some extra margin... The nice thing about practicing stalls in a Mooney... it doesn’t take all day to climb to the starting point... If you like stalls... find the unusual attitude recovery thread where an MSer/M20K pilot took a training in a fancy aerobatic plane... 11) Learning recovery techniques in a fancy aerobatic plane may not represent actual flight regimes in your Mooney... And you will be a better pilot for doing it... PP thoughts only not a CFI... Best regards, -a- Quote
cliffy Posted December 11, 2020 Report Posted December 11, 2020 Little known fact- Before he went west Tony Levier had a foundation promoting minimal aerobatic training for GA pilots. He and Fish Salmon were big proponents of it (Look them up). They were on final to LAX in a Bonanza and got rolled inverted from wake turbulence and all Tony did was keep rolling to upright This was way down low on final. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 11, 2020 Report Posted December 11, 2020 https://calisphere.org/item/897b7b92ab8325ab8c4973d1802cc4e2/ A book about Tony and Fish! And the F104... I have heard about rolling with the wake turbulence vs. against it... not sure where I heard it from though... Best regards, -a- Quote
Nukemzzz Posted December 11, 2020 Report Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/11/2020 at 6:20 AM, cliffy said: Little known fact- Before he went west Tony Levier had a foundation promoting minimal aerobatic training for GA pilots. He and Fish Salmon were big proponents of it (Look them up). They were on final to LAX in a Bonanza and got rolled inverted from wake turbulence and all Tony did was keep rolling to upright This was way down low on final. Expand I'd love to see that in the same way I've always wanted to see a tornado, as long as it wasn't sucking up MY house. lol When I was around 10yrs old I lived in Rialto California and my dad's plane was based at Rialto Airport (Home of Art Scholl Aviation, saw Bob Hoover there some as well). He and my grandfather was doing some pattern work and I was left at the car for some reason that day watching in the tie down area. On approach, about 30ft up and over the numbers, the plane (C175) stopped moving forward and seemed to fly backwards for a bit and then the bottom fell out but he saved it with full power and still managed to land (rough one). They taxied over and parked and when my grandpa got out he was cursing up a storm. "Where did you get your license from? A cracker jack box?". The Santa Anna winds can be brutal, but I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Quote
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