Exhaust overhaul

[FastTex]

Good morning.

Do we have a preferred source to overhaul the exhaust system? 

Here is the list of what I was told I need (AWI ~$2.5k). Eventually, most of the parts must be new and only the shroud can be overhauled?

    1   A630045-503         MOONEY M-20  200 SLIP RIB M20J - MUFFLER (New) 
    1   A630053-507         MOONEY M-20  200 SLIP RIB M20J - RR RISER (New)
    1   A630053-509         MOONEY M-20  200 SLIP RIB M20J - LF RISER (New)
    1   A630053-511         MOONEY M-20  200 SLIP RIB M20J - RF RISER (New)
    1   A630053-513         MOONEY M-20  200 SLIP RIB M20J - LR RISER  (New)
    1   A630119-501         MOONEY M-20  200 SLIP RIB M20J - MOONEY M2 (New)
    1   630057-000          MOONEY M-20  200 SLIP RIB M20J - SHROUD        

 

[Guest]

www.aircraftexhaust.com has a complete conversion kit of E,F and J.

Clarence

[FloridaMan]

I would use this opportunity to upgrade to a Powerflow. I have one on my m20f and she performs great. 

[ArtVandelay]

I just replaced the muffler part (from AWI), do you really need to replace all that?

[Bolter]

If you need to replace all that and call it an overhaul, you can get an all-new matched exhaust system from Knisley or others for same or less than 2500.  I would prefer "new" versus "overhaul" for confidence for installation, use, and for potential resale value.  

[Tcraft938]

6 hours ago, FloridaMan said:

I would use this opportunity to upgrade to a Powerflow. I have one on my m20f and she performs great. 

I'm curious what differences both pro and con you noticed with your powerflow exhaust?   Thanks

[FastTex]

16 hours ago, Tcraft938 said:

I'm curious what differences both pro and con you noticed with your powerflow exhaust?   Thanks

Same here! I had a Cherokee 140 and installed one and I saw maybe a small climbing capability improvement but I do not remember major benefits. It is a $6k vs. $3k investment (powerflow vs regular system...) and really would like to hear what you guys think...

[EricJ]

On 3/14/2020 at 3:54 AM, FastTex said:

Do we have a preferred source to overhaul the exhaust system? 

You might check around with local welding/machine/fabrication shops.   A local shop here that does a fair amount of aviation stuff routinely refurbishes mufflers, replaces flame tubes, etc., etc.   There may be somebody similar in your area.

 

[Landantheman]

I had to put new exhaust on my F this last annual.  I think it was $2200 all said and done, I will have to look at my books for the exact price and name of the company.  I know it was manufactured in California.  The fires they had in November kept the company from shipping my exhaust and extended my annual down time several weeks.

[FastTex]

36 minutes ago, Landantheman said:

I had to put new exhaust on my F this last annual.  I think it was $2200 all said and done, I will have to look at my books for the exact price and name of the company.  I know it was manufactured in California.  The fires they had in November kept the company from shipping my exhaust and extended my annual down time several weeks.

That sounds interesting. Please share the details when you can. Thanks!

[FloridaMan]

There’s a shop at FXE that is known for being pretty good. Prior to sending my Rocket exhaust off to Rocket, I brought it to these guys where they found additional cracks. The amount of work warranted a significant rebuild and I decided to go to the source, but even for the inspection and sandblast they were extremely fast and didn’t charge me much to show me everything that was needed on the one stack. 
 

http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/

[Raptor05121]

On 3/14/2020 at 1:45 PM, Bolter said:

If you need to replace all that and call it an overhaul, you can get an all-new matched exhaust system from Knisley or others for same or less than 2500.  I would prefer "new" versus "overhaul" for confidence for installation, use, and for potential resale value.  

They're the same exact thing. An "overhauled" muffler/exhaust system is all brand new, they just move the data tag over and call it the same piece.

[ArtVandelay]

I just went through this, my exhaust was not able to be repaired. Something about the metal had deteriorated so the welds would not hold, I ended up ordering a new one (not the entire exhaust, just the muffler can itself).

[Bolter]

1 hour ago, Raptor05121 said:

They're the same exact thing. An "overhauled" muffler/exhaust system is all brand new, they just move the data tag over and call it the same piece.

I agree this is true in some cases with respect to function.  If the "overhaul" is made of all new parts on one jig and all together, then it is like new, all fitted, all new welds, and all new metal.  I would consider it equivalent in function to "new" and feel good about the money I saved.  But it is still is not "new", which looks better on resale, so there should be some savings to justify it.  

When there is a list of parts to buy, like the OP, I suspect a more mix-and match approach and you may have "mostly new" parts and a few old ones when you are done.  When that happens parts don't align as well and the hammers come out.  You may have an old weld somewhere on the parts that were carried over that will age ahead of all the new ones. 

Ultimately, if you are spending the same as new, why not have "NEW" in your logbook and get it all done in one step? 

[aaronk25]

Same here! I had a Cherokee 140 and installed one and I saw maybe a small climbing capability improvement but I do not remember major benefits. It is a $6k vs. $3k investment (powerflow vs regular system...) and really would like to hear what you guys think...

The power flow is a nice system. More take off power and climb. It really only seat of the pants helps in the 2700-2600rpm range for HP improvement. But all chat dropped by 20-30f at any given power setting.


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[ArtVandelay]

The power flow is a nice system. More take off power and climb. It really only seat of the pants helps in the 2700-2600rpm range for HP improvement. But all chat dropped by 20-30f at any given power setting.

It adds a couple of hours of work at annual...you have to drop the muffler and lubricate the joints I’ve been told.

[aaronk25]

It adds a couple of hours of work at annual...you have to drop the muffler and lubricate the joints I’ve been told.

Pressure test it, lube, yep maybe a hour. But, we fly these planes to go fast right? Also with cooler chts is better for the engine.


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[Nukemzzz]

AWI rebuilt my muffler and all header pipes for just over $2k in Jan. I couldn’t detect any reused content in what they sent back. Looked like all new stuff to me. 

[FastTex]

On 3/18/2020 at 12:24 PM, Nukemzzz said:

AWI rebuilt my muffler and all header pipes for just over $2k in Jan. I couldn’t detect any reused content in what they sent back. Looked like all new stuff to me. 

Agreed. I have received a quote from aircraftexhaust.com for the entire system new (including a new shroud) for about $2500. If you add about a day of work the whole project might cost about $3k (guessing). Appealing...#afterfreakingvirus

[The Other Red Baron]

Our local shop found this when doing the oil change on it recently.  They removed the exhaust system and sent it up to a shop in Minnesota.  Got it back a couple weeks later and local shop put it back on.  Right at $2,600 for everything.

[cliffy]

Many welding shops doing a/c exhaust systems can "rebuild" them with mostly new parts. Technically if they can save one item from the old system and replace everything else it can be called a repaired part (but with almost everything new). They can't "make" a new complete exhaust system as they don't hold an STC, PMA or the TC. They can only "repair" them. 

They all use setup jigs so that all the parts line up when you get it back just like a new one. 

I had mine done last summer and the "repaired unit" looks brand new.  They did and excellent job.  Mine came in at @ $1600

Make sure you use new exhaust gaskets (get the all metal "no-blow" type) Get new exhaust nuts and washers, Use all new bolts and hardware for the joints, new springs are well worth the investment (@ $5 each). 

Send everything in- muffler and all the stacks and exhaust pipe end to do a proper job. 

 

[cliffy]

19 hours ago, The Other Red Baron said:

Our local shop found this when doing the oil change on it recently.  They removed the exhaust system and sent it up to a shop in Minnesota.  Got it back a couple weeks later and local shop put it back on.  Right at $2,600 for everything.

Exhaust leak obvious on the red SCAT tubing above the crack. 

[N201MKTurbo]

Now there is a carbon Monoxide problem!

That's what gave me the three day headache!

[Marauder]

Here are some pictures of my failure of my 630053-511



Did a nice job of torching the plug. Interestingly only this riser is showing this kind of deterioration of the inner wall. The risers are all the same age.


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[tigers2007]

If the crack is so obvious, as shown in the photos in this thread, can't they just be TIG'd or wire welded back into service? Is a full overhaul really that necessary if everything else looks good? I suppose a simple pressure test could also test for leaks.