M20C short of runway at Reno Stead

[zaitcev]

https://www.kolotv.com/content/news/Plane-crash-at-the-Re-558374571.html

N78988. Apparently returning from Burning Man. Not sure what's up with that, possibly ran out of gas. Or maybe high like a kite and didn't sleep for 3 days because of the booming music non-stop. Stead is not on the way from BRC to Colorado, so probably giving a lift to someone to Reno.

Edited August 27, 2019 by zaitcev

[steingar]

Could've been fatigue related, could be he just phuked up.  Can happen to the best of us.  Paul has been to the Burning Man festival, and he hasn't crashed that I know of.

[gsxrpilot]

41 minutes ago, steingar said:

Could've been fatigue related, could be he just phuked up.  Can happen to the best of us.  Paul has been to the Burning Man festival, and he hasn't crashed that I know of.

True statements... both of them 

[gsxrpilot]

I would expect fuel to be the issue. There is effectively no fuel available out on the playa. So you have to tanker enough fuel to get in, do all your scenic flights, and get back out. 

When I was doing a lot of airplane rides and scenic flights, I'd make a run over to Lovelock, KLOL, to get fuel. It's still 50 miles from BurningMan 88NV, so you have to plan ahead.

[irishpilot]

Hard to definitively say cause until NTSB does their initial report. Tough to tell from the photo to see if the prop is bent. If not, prop wasn't spinning. Fuel or engine out are two possible causes.

I am glad to hear no fatalities. Hope for a speedy recovery to those involved in that crash.

Fly Safe,
Safety Forum Mod

[ExpressJetter]

Looks like it might have been a 2 month old owner.

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N78988

[gsxrpilot]

Public Service Announcement--

If anyone is thinking about flying their Mooney to BurningMan, please reach out. I'm happy to share all the G2 on the whole experience, what to expect, airport regulations and procedures, protecting the plane, tying down to survive wind storms, gifting rides, protecting the interior from naked dirty hippies, and where to get fuel.

It's a wonderful experience, and for those of you with open minds, I highly recommend it. But there are a few things you'll want to know ahead of time.

[zaitcev]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

When I was doing a lot of airplane rides and scenic flights, I'd make a run over to Lovelock, KLOL, to get fuel. It's still 50 miles from BurningMan 88NV, so you have to plan ahead.

I didn't see any fuel at KLOL when I visited it by car and took a picture of a rotting MiG-15. Glad to hear that they have some. As for the BRC Airport, it's not that far out. I saw a Mooney at Soldier Meadow resort (NV05), which does not have 100LL either. I would imagine that Stead is the nearest reliable airport for Burning Man.

Edited August 27, 2019 by zaitcev

[RogueOne]

57 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Public Service Announcement--

If anyone is thinking about flying their Mooney to BurningMan, please reach out. I'm happy to share all the G2 on the whole experience, what to expect, airport regulations and procedures, protecting the plane, tying down to survive wind storms, gifting rides, protecting the interior from naked dirty hippies, and where to get fuel.

It's a wonderful experience, and for those of you with open minds, I highly recommend it. But there are a few things you'll want to know ahead of time.

Will an open mind protect me from the dust?

[steingar]

My biggest fear in flying the Mooney is running out of gas in the pattern.  It is such a pain switching tanks that I could hit the ground before I get them switched and get the engine back on.  If there is any question at all of sufficient fuel I switch at the top of the descent.

[RogueOne]

Deleted

Edited August 30, 2019 by RogueOne
All Mooney ALL THE TIME

[RogueOne]

Deleted

Edited August 30, 2019 by RogueOne
All Mooney ALL THE TIME

[RogueOne]

Deleted

Edited August 30, 2019 by RogueOne
All Mooney ALL THE TIME

[RogueOne]

Deleted

Edited August 30, 2019 by RogueOne
All Mooney ALL THE TIME

[RogueOne]

Deleted

Edited August 30, 2019 by RogueOne
All Mooney ALL THE TIME

[RogueOne]

Deleted

Edited August 30, 2019 by RogueOne
All Mooney ALL THE TIME

[Jerry 5TJ]

4 hours ago, ExpressJetter said:

Looks like it might have been a 2 month old owner.

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N78988

That’s young! 

[gsxrpilot]

I didn't see any fuel at KLOL when I visited it by car and took a picture of a rotting MiG-15. Glad to hear that they have some. As for the BRC Airport, it's not that far out. I saw a Mooney at Soldier Meadow resort (NV05), which does not have 100LL either. I would imagine that Stead is the nearest reliable airport for Burning Man.

I’ve always gotten fuel at LOL and the FBO building is air conditioned with clean bathrooms and cold drinking water. It was always a very popular place to go with “Burners” who wanted an airplane ride. And it’s closer than Reno Stead.

[RLCarter]

5 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

protecting the interior from naked dirty hippies, 

That's funny

[thinwing]

15 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

That's funny

Naked,dirty,smelly,high as a kite hippies

[steingar]

2 hours ago, RogueOne said:

I don’t fear that or this, but would having a fuel tank or an engine on fire be a bigger “fear” steingar?  You are in the pattern.  Just land.  You don’t need an engine to do that.

I take very good care of my aircraft and am quite particular about maintenance.  A well maintained aircraft really shouldn't catch on fire.

2 hours ago, RogueOne said:

How about losing an engine over Lake Michigan in December?  Would that be a bigger “fear” than running out of fuel in the pattern?

Since I don't fly over Lake Michigan in December it really isn't a worry.  Actually, flying over Northern Lake Michigan any time of the year is dangerous.  Your duration in the waters there before you succumb to hypothermia can be measured in minutes.

1 hour ago, RogueOne said:

What about having a yoke jam in a deflected position?  Would that be a bigger fear?

Again, the controls shouldn't jam if you're taking good care of your aircraft.

1 hour ago, RogueOne said:

What about special disorientation?  Would that be a bigger fear?

I'll worry about that when I hit the IR.  What you're missing in your complete and utter idiocy is I fly a landing pattern in each and every flight.  I've identified a failure mode that would be benign in other aircraft, but could easily be disastrous in a Mooney.  I tend to fly fairly wide patterns.  My reasoning is the number of folks who've had the engine quit in the pattern is far smaller than the number who wound up in stall/spin accidents.  I don't like to yank and bank low to the ground with low energy.    If the engine quit in the wrong place I might not make it back to the field.  So I change tanks at the top of the descent, worry solved.

[zaitcev]

6 minutes ago, steingar said:

I've identified a failure mode that would be benign in other aircraft, but could easily be disastrous in a Mooney.

First, the whole problem is a pile of nonsense, because your pre-landing checklist should include "Fuel Selector: ON FULLEST TANK". Do it when you push the prop forward and drop the gear and you will not run out of gas in the pattern. Not to mention, if you're in a pattern, you're within a gliding range of runway.

Second, it's not that hard to switch tanks. I just reach between my legs and do it. Older pilots with reduced hand dexterity sometimes devise a crank that helps switching tanks while continuing to look outside. It only takes a piece of a PVC pipe: like a demooning tool for a .45 ACP revolver, only bigger.

Or, you could buy an Ultra, which has the fuel switch on the center console.

Edited August 27, 2019 by zaitcev

[RogueOne]

Deleted

Edited August 30, 2019 by RogueOne
All Mooney ALL THE TIME

[steingar]

Just now, zaitcev said:

First, the whole problem is a pile of nonsense, because your pre-landing checklist should include "Fuel Selector: ON FULLEST TANK". Do it when you push the prop forward and drop the gear and you will not run out of gas in the pattern. Not to mention, if you're in a pattern, you're within a gliding range of runway.

Second, it's not that hard to switch tanks. I just reach between my legs and do it. Older pilots with reduced hand dexterity sometimes devise a crank that helps switching tanks while continuing to look outside. It only takes a piece of a PVC pipe: like a demooning tool for a .45 ACP revolver, only bigger.

Your being just a trifle arrogant, assuming everyone has the same aircraft and the same body type as you.  For me, I have to unlatch my shoulder belt and reach head down to the floor.  I'm sufficiently short that I can't see the thing unless I bend over enough to give myself a very good time.  The one place I don't want to go head down is the traffic pattern.  Too much going on, too little energy, too close to the ground.  Instead I switch tanks at the top of the descent.  Lots of altitude, and I'm less worried about bopping into someone in the landing pattern.  Moreover, I'm not going to burn that much gas during the descent since I'm usually at a low throttle setting.

[MIm20c]

@steingar your one liners are priceless...