Piloto Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 Quote: Magnum In the above mentioned crash in Germany both aircraft had TCAS and were both talking to ATC (on different frequencies). The TCAS alerted and gave resolution advisories, the DHL followed them and informed ATC. The Russians followed the last ATC instruction and ignored the TCAS resolution advisory. TCAS is better than nothing, but might not be able to prevent you from having bad day. Quote
John Pleisse Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 Quote: Shadrach I fly out of a Class D drome and I get the sense that we're kind of like a farm team for the big leagues. Because of this, you can somehow hear the inexperience in our controller's voices and see it in thier instruction. Many times I've had tower controllers complicate what 4 pilots could have figured out easily...and with a lot less talk, but you have to start somewhere. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 Quote: eldeano I had the same experience twice at KPHK and once at TJMZ. It happens when there is no wind or the crosswind is at 90 deg so you can land at either end. At one time at PHK I am ready to take off on rwy 35 when my Monroy ATD-300 alerted me of traffic at 2 o'clock 1nm +200ft. I look up and spotted the traffic on final at the opposite end. José Quote
Magnum Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 Quote: Piloto In the above mentioned crash in Germany both aircraft had TCAS and were both talking to ATC (on different frequencies). The TCAS alerted and gave resolution advisories, the DHL followed them and informed ATC. The Russians followed the last ATC instruction and ignored the TCAS resolution advisory. TCAS is better than nothing, but might not be able to prevent you from having bad day. Quote
Magnum Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 If someone is interested in the report, it is worth reading: http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_007/nn_226462/EN/Publications/Investigation_20Report/2002/Report__02__AX001-1-2___C3_9Cberlingen__Report,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Report_02_AX001-1-2_%C3%9Cberlingen_Report.pdf If the full report (>100 pages) is too much, here are themost important parts: http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_007/nn_226462/EN/Publications/Investigation_20Report/2002/Report__02__AX001-1-2___C3_9Cberlingen__Appendix__1-3,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Report_02_AX001-1-2_%C3%9Cberlingen_Appendix_1-3.pdf http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_007/nn_226462/EN/Publications/Investigation_20Report/2002/Report__02__AX001-1-2___C3_9Cberlingen__Appendix__2-10,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Report_02_AX001-1-2_%C3%9Cberlingen_Appendix_2-10.pdf Quote
fantom Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 ....and I know none of us here use the dumb "any traffic in the pattern, please advise", rather than listening up and looking outside. Quote
rob Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 Quote: fantom ....and I know none of us here use the dumb "any traffic in the pattern, please advise", rather than listening up and looking outside. Quote
John Pleisse Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 Quote: allsmiles Seems to me before you rush to report the poor guy you should examine your own decision making first. Why didn't you see the TBM and initiate a go around? Weren't you looking? Assuming he made an honest mistake with the frequency, which is easy to do by the way many of these CTAF are only one digit off, did you do everything correctly that you want to crucify the guy! No one was hurt, no airplanes were bent and apparently he apologised to you! Leave him alone! We all bear responsibility and should examine our own actions! Quote
John Pleisse Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 Quote: fantom ....and I know none of us here use the dumb "any traffic in the pattern, please advise", rather than listening up and looking outside. Quote
Shadrach Posted July 25, 2011 Report Posted July 25, 2011 My favorite at FDK is: "Frederick Flight Center - Cessna12DB - Radio check" "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is taxiing to the active runway 23 from the flight center - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is taking the active 23 we"ll be closed traffic for touch and gos - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is over the quarry turning crosswind 23- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is turning left downwind 23 - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is abeam the numbers left downwind for 23- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is turning left base T&G 23- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is 3 mile final 23 T&G - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is short final 23 T&G- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is on the roll 23 Frederick..." and over and over ad nauseam... Quote
John Pleisse Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 Quote: Shadrach My favorite at FDK is: "Frederick Flight Center - Cessna12DB - Radio check" "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is taxiing to the active runway 23 from the flight center - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is taking the active 23 we"ll be closed traffic for touch and gos - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is over the quarry turning crosswind 23- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is turning left downwind 23 - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is abeam the numbers left downwind for 23- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is turning left base T&G 23- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is 3 mile final 23 T&G - Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is short final 23 T&G- Frederick..." "Frederick traffic - Cessna12DB is on the roll 23 Frederick..." and over and over ad nauseam... Quote
PTK Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 Quote: N4352H Seems to me before you rush to report the poor guy you should examine your own decision making first. Why didn't you see the TBM and initiate a go around? Weren't you looking? Assuming he made an honest mistake with the frequency, which is easy to do by the way many of these CTAF are only one digit off, did you do everything correctly that you want to crucify the guy! No one was hurt, no airplanes were bent and apparently he apologised to you! Leave him alone! We all bear responsibility and should examine our own actions! Quote
Shadrach Posted July 26, 2011 Report Posted July 26, 2011 Quote: N4352H Ross..... Frederick Traffic, C-12DB at Alpha crossing runway 30 for 23.... Quote
John Pleisse Posted July 27, 2011 Report Posted July 27, 2011 Quote: allsmiles Smiles...I had four witnesses (2 in the air looking down) to the wind on him. 1) I gave the individual the opportunity to provide a more forthcoming apology, he declined. 2) I gave the individual the opportunity to pay a $450 bill to have weeds picked out of my prop, wash the plane and examine it for a prop strike.....he came back with an arrogant list of terms and conditions 3) Even taxiing off the run way, he was oblivious I was in the weeds. 4) He went behind my back to the head IA in the shop attempting to find out the condition of my plane prior to talking to me, only after taking issue with the FBO GM for someone siplling jet fuel on his wing 5) His first stop, once inside AOPA was to the legal department to size up his predicament. 6) Lastly, and here's the kicker Smiles, if something like this happens, it's your butt or his. You should thank me Smiles for seeing to it this level of arrogance in the air will never affect your safety. But then again, it takes somebody with the facts, reason and ability to do that, Smiles. I took the high road, filed an insurance claim and called the FISDO, not to get him in trouble but to protect people like you FROM HIM. Quote
PTK Posted July 27, 2011 Report Posted July 27, 2011 You are absolutely right! I think you should report this. Not as punishment but to educate him and others. But if he was arrogant about it maybe he does need an attitude adjustment! There is no good excuse for this! We all make mistakes but entering the wrong frequency, as easy as it is to do sometimes, is inexcusable. He obviously wasn't looking and/or misjudged thinking you'll be clear before him. Quote
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