High Performance Endorsement

[Max1maul]

I’m really not sure of the value (other than it is required).  Got my HP in a 182 (which is nose heavy) but used it with a Bonanza (which is not nose heavy).  Sure, more rudder.....  As others have stated the transition training would cover that and more.  I guess I imagine it is some kind of holdover from when the typical airplane was 100 HP or something.  Probably won’t be the last thing I do that is not needed but is necessary. 

[Parker_Woodruff]

5 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

And if your flying someone elses' plane under the open pilot warranty, make sure that there is a clause in the policy to prevent the carrier from subrogating their potential losses against you if something does go pear shaped, or have a non owned policy that will protect your (ass)etts.

and many aircraft owner policies will have a non-owned aircraft endorsement.  However, there are generally limitations on seats, horsepower, engines, and/or gear. So as always, read your policy and ask your agent if you have any questions.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Max.

Best regards,

-a-

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

This is what we had discussed doing, but will both still need to meet any time in type requirements.

You will. My only point is, you may not  know what they are until you fill out the application to be added to the policy because they will often be different (better) than the open pilot requirements.

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

And if your flying someone elses' plane under the open pilot warranty, make sure that there is a clause in the policy to prevent the carrier from subrogating their potential losses against you if something does go pear shaped, or have a non owned policy that will protect your (ass)etts.

You won't find an anti-subrogation clause applicable to the open pilot warranty. Difficult enough to get them when being listed as an approved pilot. 

Hopefully not too  big an issue with two aircraft owners trading off since their owner policies are likely to have non-owned coverage built in. 

[steingar]

I think the endorsement is kind of a big deal for someone transitioning from a Cherokee 140 to a Comanche, or from someone going from a Skyhawk to a Skylane.  The issue of the world going by faster needs to be addressed, among other things.  I transitioned from a Cherokee 140 to my Mooney, and I can tell you the ten hours transition time I got wasn't nearly enough.  

[RobertGary1]

It makes sense the faa doesn’t want someone popping out of a c-150 and into an Ovation without instruction. But if you’re flying a 200hp J don’t expect a big difference in a 230hp c-182. 

-Robert 

[gsxrpilot]

28 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

It makes sense the faa doesn’t want someone popping out of a c-150 and into an Ovation without instruction. But if you’re flying a 200hp J don’t expect a big difference in a 230hp c-182. 

-Robert 

Yeah, it'll just be slower. 

[RobertGary1]

4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yeah, it'll just be slower. 

But you could fill the C-182 with concrete and it will still climb. Sometimes you need a diesel F-350 and sometimes you need a Porsche.

 

-Robert

[Parker_Woodruff]

6 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

You won't find an anti-subrogation clause applicable to the open pilot warranty.

In today's aviation insurance market, some policies from some carriers commonly include it.

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

In today's aviation insurance market, some policies from some carriers commonly include it.

That's great. I know Club policies and commercial FBO policies which cover the renters often have anti-subrogation clauses, but I haven't seen it associated with a basic owner policy open warranty. I'd really like to see one. Do you have one available or which can be pointed to?

[skydvrboy]

Wow, I never imagined this topic would generate so much discussion.  I thought I'd get one or two answers like "heat management" or "nothing".  Turns out, it seems like I could have went and got my high performance endorsement in less time than it took to read all the replies.  

[jwilcoxon78]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:17 PM, midlifeflyer said:

If it's going to be a switcheroo between two owners, as described, it's generally better to be named as an approved pilot on each other's policies. It's a little cleaner and the time in type requirements tend to be less than the Open Pilot Warranty, sometimes significantly. Open Pilot requirements are based on an unknown Joe Pilot. Approved pilot requirements  are based on the individual pilot's history and experience. 

Not only that, you'll want to make sure that you have a waiver of subrogation and/or your policy contains non-owned coverage. 

 

[RobertGary1]

Plus open pilots can’t have regular access. My broker said if you have your own keys you’ll likely be denied in an open pilot claim because you’re no longer a casual user. 

-Robert

[n961jk]

On 12/5/2018 at 11:05 AM, Browncbr1 said:

you'll get to learn how much more you appreciate your Mooney!   You'll get to see how a 210 handles.  I got mine in a 182.  It climbs better, flies slower, burns more fuel, and lands like a pig.

A 182 flies like a bag of hammers

[midlifeflyer]

18 minutes ago, n961jk said:

A 182 flies like a bag of hammers

You should see it with floats. Like a bag of hammers with a barn door attached.

[steingar]

On 12/6/2018 at 11:35 AM, RobertGary1 said:

But you could fill the C-182 with concrete and it will still climb. Sometimes you need a diesel F-350 and sometimes you need a Porsche.

 

-Robert

The Skylane is I think the best overall GA airplane ever made by anyone.  It is the only one I've ever heard of that will fly with the seats and the tanks full.  It'll happily land and blast out of short fields, but still moves at near Mooney speeds.  Not for me, I like my Mooney.  But they are impressive aircraft, and I've nothing bad to say about them.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

It is the only one I've ever heard of that will fly with the seats and the tanks full.

That means the tanks are too small. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, steingar said:

The Skylane is I think the best overall GA airplane ever made by anyone.  It is the only one I've ever heard of that will fly with the seats and the tanks full.  It'll happily land and blast out of short fields, but still moves at near Mooney speeds.  Not for me, I like my Mooney.  But they are impressive aircraft, and I've nothing bad to say about them.

The 182 isn’t alone, a Comanche 400 can do it as well.

Clarence

[Hank]

4 hours ago, steingar said:

The Skylane is I think the best overall GA airplane ever made by anyone.  It is the only one I've ever heard of that will fly with the seats and the tanks full.  It'll happily land and blast out of short fields, but still moves at near Mooney speeds.  Not for me, I like my Mooney.  But they are impressive aircraft, and I've nothing bad to say about them.

But even my C will walk away from even a lightly loaded 182 . . . And my Mooney certainly lands better, too.  

[mike_elliott]

16 hours ago, steingar said:

The Skylane is I think the best overall GA airplane ever made by anyone.  It is the only one I've ever heard of that will fly with the seats and the tanks full.  It'll happily land and blast out of short fields, but still moves at near Mooney speeds.  Not for me, I like my Mooney.  But they are impressive aircraft, and I've nothing bad to say about them.

With a 1100# UL, An F model Mooney will hold 4 180# adults, carry 64 gal of fuel, fly for over 7 hrs, blast in and out of short fields and does move at Mooney speeds. PLUS you dont look like a dork flying one! Now you have heard of another!

[gsxrpilot]

11 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

With a 1100# UL, An F model Mooney will hold 4 180# adults, carry 64 gal of fuel, fly for over 7 hrs, blast in and out of short fields and does move at Mooney speeds. PLUS you dont look like a dork flying one! Nor you have heard of another!

A C182 has a listed range of 550 nm. Think of all the fuel you could leave behind with that M20F if you only had to go 550 miles. You'd only need gas in one of your two tanks.

[Andy95W]

I'm still with @steingar about the 182. It's not better than a Mooney, but it is a great airplane in its own, different way.

-It's about as fast as a Piper Arrow

-It can carry a crapload of stuff

-It's about as easy to fly as a 172 with about the same insurance rates

-When it comes time for a PPI, you don't have to look for a Mooney specific A&P.  I'm pretty sure my mother could work on a 182.

-It's engine is as bulletproof as the O-360, more reliable than the IO-360, and smoother than both of them

-If you get bored, you can swap out the wheels for floats or skis

-You can land it on a sandbar in Alaska or an insane mountain side airstrip in Idaho

-Your wives will never call it cramped and uncomfortable 

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, Andy95W said:

I'm still with @steingar about the 182. It's not better than a Mooney, but it is a great airplane in its own, different way.

-It's about as fast as a Piper Arrow

-It can carry a crapload of stuff

-It's about as easy to fly as a 172 with about the same insurance rates

-When it comes time for a PPI, you don't have to look for a Mooney specific A&P.  I'm pretty sure my mother could work on a 182.

-It's engine is as bulletproof as the O-360, more reliable than the IO-360, and smoother than both of them

-If you get bored, you can swap out the wheels for floats or skis

-You can land it on a sandbar in Alaska or an insane mountain side airstrip in Idaho

-Your wives will never call it cramped and uncomfortable 

Don't you know you are required to trash anything different than your choices?

[Hank]

5 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

Don't you know you are required to trash anything different than your choices?

Hey, now! Don't drag politics into our nice airplane discussion!