Ipad Apps

[Cris]

Quote: testwest From the Oshkosh thread

And now your Aspen will talk to your Ipad, and lots more: http://www.connectedpanel.com

Talk about a game changer, this is it!!. I have long suspected that someone would link the Ipad to the panel boxes. This will virtually eliminate the strangle hold on data base prices that Garmin as well as others have had assuming one moves to an open architecture as promised by Aspen/King. With the Ipad & apps from Foreflight, WingX etc uploading the charts/plates and even apps to the panel units one would pay just $75/year or so for all their data plans!. As an example Garmin now wants me to pay $2000 for the software key to unlock my GMX200 to display the charts/plates PLUS hundreds /yr for the priviledge of displaying same. I refuse to do that & stick with my Ipad. If Aspen/King with their new 770 already announced as "open architecture" deliver with an Ipad interface I'd be all over that deal as the data base savings would quite possibly pay for the unit just as the database savings pays for the Ipad albeit a longer time frame.. This might well be the "holy grail" of Pilot cockpit info for the future. Think SVT & weather with WingX that was discussed above that would now be displayed on our panel units. I suspect it will put a serious dent on new Garmin/Avidyne installations. I for one had been considering a new GTN 650 but I will definitely wait until I see more from Aspen/King     

[aviatoreb]

Quote: allsmiles

Due to its size and design the iPad is too cumbersome in the cockpit.  There are a lot of concerns and rightly so, on how and where to mount it.  Where do you put this thing?  It takes up a lot of space! In addition complicating positioning you have angle it a certain way to minimize glare.  

Functionally, the iPad is only an average navigator. Think about it. Should we really be playing with an iPad while flying ?!  No software that I've seen, no Wing X, no Foreflight or anyone else, have any worthwhile navigational detail anyway. Synthetic vision or not!  I hope I'm wrong and God forbid this never happens but someone somewhere is going to get bitten by this synthetic vision stuff on an iPad!  And its GPS is marginally dependable.  As for weather it can't compete with near real time as XM, even on a handheld.  

The only real justification I can see for lugging an iPad around in the cockpit is as an inexpensive pdf plate reader and not as a GPS.  But of course my iPhone with Goodreader and pdf plates is my free backup plate reader.  For a handheld GPS an Aera is an excellent choice.

Of course I have plates on my 750 so i don't really use my iPhone either. But they are there.

[PTK]

Quote: aviatoreb

I agree mostly allsmiles.  I have a garmin aera that I use in my cockpit both as my backup nav, and my source of XM weather. But I also fly with an iPad which I use in a manner that I think it is ideally suited for - as a EFB - electronic flight bag.  Essentially an easy to access and quick access source of all things that used to be on paper.  Not only can we access charts and plates quickly and flip through them, but since with a GPS they are georeferenced, it is a huge leap from simple paper.  But I worry that these devices are not up to snuff for a nav device. I would rather use my aera in the soup if my primary 430W were to go on the blink - or even my VOR needles.

I keep my iPad on my knee as a knee board as I would paper which is fine in its role as paper replacement.  If it were to be a nav device - it is too big for our panels.  I wish there were a half sized iPad - something between an iPhone and iPad size.  

[Immelman]

My what a lively discussion.

I've been using an iPad 1 in the cockpit for over a year now. I was asked to do a presentation of my choosing at my airport for the local FAAST meeting series so I decided this past March to really get into looking at the iPad and other similar devices as EFBs and put together an hour talk on it.

My personal conclusion was that the iPad makes a great paper chart and manual replacement and preflight tool. It is not yet ready for prime-time as a primary navigator, even with an external GPS. The reasons I hold this belief are due to (1) the limited data set apple provides to iPad developers WRT position information and quality-of-fix, and (2) some real life experiences - both myself and witnessing other pilots using things like geo-refed plates where the iPad is displaying an erroneous position and says that the fix accuracy is quite good.

With respect to using it as an EFB, there are a number of gotchas from overheating (which also happens to me if the ipad is in direct sunlight), glare, cockpit ergonomics, and head's down time in the cockpit to accomplish a particular task. I feel that at the present time, these issues can be worked around and allow safe use of the iPad for chart display -- but I recommend that pilots take some time to transition with both paper charts and the iPad to get to know the device, its limitations, and how to work around the above issues. This also applies for what software package you use. I find foreflight to be a really nice flight planner, but not as good as a chart display program as skycharts pro due to a more simple and easy to use interface for skycharts. I have not yet tried WingX.

I think the future is bright for these devices -- but be careful. There are some things that can bite you, hard, particularly if a pilot decides to go whole-hog on the navigation front. Watch this youtube video closely and you'll see what I mean:

[PTK]

Yeah, it is a lively discussion allright!  I love it when people try to talk up the iPad! That somehow it's competition to Garmin's 750! They are either kidding or just plain going against the grain.  As if those of us who installed the 750 are plain old know nothing chopped liver! 

The iPad is excellent for what it is designed to do. Not navigating! It can very quickly transform the friendly skies into no so very friendly!

[OR75]

I would not rely solely on any single piece of equipment (ipad or GNS or KLN or KX or KR or whatever) and leave yourself an out ...

 

[fantom]

Quote: allsmiles

They are either kidding or just plain going against the grain.

[jlunseth]

I agree with Jesse's comments wholeheartedly.

[PTK]

Quote: OR75

I would not rely solely on any single piece of equipment (ipad or GNS or KLN or KX or KR or whatever) and leave yourself an out ...

[fantom]

Moshi iVisor AG Anti-Glare Screen Protector for iPad & iPad 2,  ~ $25

Easy to install, to clean, and to use, but hard to find.

[scottfromiowa]

Jim:

Thanks for the update on the ADS-B blue tooth.  Interesting.  Some great capability seem to be on the horizon.  I will likely get in on that.  Fantastic.

[bnicolette]

Definitely not a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket on anything.  Always have something running in the background that you can refer to that is going to keep you reasonably on course at all times so as not to have to rush to try and put something together quickly in the heat of a failure while IMC.  I'm not sure about you all, but there is so little to do enroute that I almost always program about everything I have in the airplane just to make time pass faster and to have a back up for the back up.  And thanks to the iPad........I can't wait to "play" with the synthetic vision!!  Anybody that would rely on iPad synthetic vision to actually stay away from the ground or try to get back on the ground............well that's just nuts.

Just out of curiosity what are the subscription costs for the new GTN's with all the bells and whistles (maps, plates, weather, nav data, terrain, obstacles, safe taxi, etc)?

I think that a lot of folks that aren't made of money are rationalizing the purchase of the expensive Garmin/King/whatever GA units as to what they can actually do for them over and above a handheld unit and an iPad?  The only real thing I can think of is the ability of doing a GPS approach?  That is the only utility that I can see they would add for me anyhow.  Everything else can be done with my Garmin 396/RNAV/iPad.  Safely and legally.  Whatever else the iPad is, it's a great and CHEAP EFB that brings a lot of extra's to the table.  But as everybody has said, it should not be used for primary navigation.  I use my iPhone for that.  

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying.  I think the Garmins are really cool units but they just can't offer "me" anything over and above my current setup and I fly the system almost every time I use my airplane.  So yep, I have drank the Kool Aid.

Alaska Air just got approval to use the iPad's for all their company manuals which is a precursor to actually using them for dedicated EFB's.  Now that is progress in the aviation industry for a part 121 operator to get approval for that and there is more to come.  Here is an article about it.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/AlaskaAirlinesOKsiPadForCockpit_204743-1.html

 

[testwest]

Foreflight and Aspen get it.

Announced at Oshkosh yesterday....

www.connectedpanel.com

and I was just informed I am going to be issued an Ipad here at work (my company sometimes builds a few airplanes in the shadow of Microsoft and Amazon)

[bnicolette]

Quote: testwest

Foreflight and Aspen get it.

and I was just informed I am going to be issued an Ipad here at work (my company sometimes builds a few airplanes in the shadow of Microsoft and Amazon)

[testwest]

When you look at the connectedpanel site the comm/nav/gps in the video background behind the Ipad is an updated Bendix/King (with Aspen helping) KSN770....but Garmin and Bendix/King have potential competition with Avidyne and their new IFD540.

Both are vaporware right now, but Aspen and Avidyne are pretty nimble and I think we will see at least one of the units on the market for real.....

[PTK]

Quote: Bnicolette

 The only real thing I can think of is the ability of doing a GPS approach?  That is the only utility that I can see they would add for me anyhow.  Everything else can be done with my Garmin 396/RNAV/iPad.  Safely and legally.  

[jlunseth]

At cruising altitude for normally aspirated aircraft, i.e. in the 4-10,000 range, the GPS in my iPad is not too far off.  At cruising altitude for my turbo aircraft, i.e. 16-FL's, I have seen it more than a thousand feet off in displayed altitude.  So I would not use it even as a backup in IMC.  As a general indicator of where you are on an approach course the geo referenced plates are fine, but I have seen too many positional errors to rely on it for navigation, and certainly not for an approach.

Now for display of the plate itself, that is a different thing entirely and the iPad is great for that.

[bnicolette]

You're right Doc, it just depends I guess on the type of flying you do.  I won't even consider flying my airplane unless I have a 500' ceiling for departure, route, and destination.  I just want some time to decide where I'm going to land when I come out of IMC before I hit the ground if the engine gets grumpy.  Everybody's limits are different and that just happens to be mine with the Mooney.  That's why the ability of doing the LPV's doesn't help my utility at all.  You're right though that it definitely adds a degree of safety for Murphy's Law.

As far as the accuracy, I can say that with the external GPS and Foreflight this thing seems to be right on and that is through heated windshields.  Again, not using it for primary navigation but just for "more" situational awareness.  I kept the iPad running the whole day yesterday and it had us pegged on each airway we were flying at altitudes up to FL430.  I can't say much about the altitude as I didn't pay any attention to that, but for azimuth, it was what appeared to be "dead nuts on".  Also kept it on my lap for each approach I did, and again, right on the money till I pulled into the chocks at all three airports using the approach plates and taxi diagrams; well four if you count departure.  Again and again, I don't think they should be used for primary but in the unlikely event that my RNAV or 396 should fail, I have no problem using the iPad backed up by the VOR's to navigate towards my destination.  Definitely not to do an approach though or even use it as an altitude guide, although I would keep it running while I slide down the ILS obviously.

And yes the LPV's are a great addition to our IFR system.  I did an LPV approach into Bar Harbor yesterday, but I just can't justify it in "my" Mooney.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N76FD/history/20110726/1245Z/KPBI/KBHB

 

 

[flight2000]

Quote: fantom

Moshi iVisor AG Anti-Glare Screen Protector for iPad & iPad 2,  ~ $25

Easy to install, to clean, and to use, but hard to find.

[fantom]

I don't use polarized sunglasses in the air, so I don't know.

[bnicolette]

Jeppesen finally released their app for the ipad that includes enroute charts which are geo referenced.  I'm sure it won't compete with Foreflight or Wing X, but at least they finally delivered on their promise.  I'm going to download them tonight and give them a try since we have a Jepp subscription still in place.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jeppesen-mobile-fd/id446912582?mt=8#

[bnicolette]

This also came across the wire today in AIN (Aviation International News):

 

Aspen Unit Links Mobile Devices to Avionics
At EAA AirVenture in Oshkosh, Wis., this week, Aspen Avionics and AvConnect unveiled “Connected Panel,” which allows pilots to use mobile devices to communicate with avionics systems. The new system’s hardware consists of the CG100 Connected Panel unit, which will be mounted behind the instrument panel. It has USB ports and Bluetooth connectivity and flash memory storage. Aspen and AvConnect are inviting third-party companies to develop hardware and software applications that work with the Connected Panel technology. The first application is Aspen’s Connected Pilot, which sells for less than $2,500 and includes the CG100 box and the Aircraft Manager iPad app from AvConnect. App maker ForeFlight will release a new ForeFlight Mobile version for Connected Pilot, which pilots can use to synchronize flight plans wirelessly between the iPad and the Honeywell Bendix/King KSN 770, as well as to populate airport frequencies into the KSN 770 radio’s standby frequency window. Other companies that have committed to building Connected Panel-enabled products include Avidyne, Jeppesen, JP Instruments, Parrot, Pinnacle Aerospace, PS Engineering, Seattle Avionics and Sporty’s Pilot Shop. Connected Panel is also designed to work with mobile devices using the Android operating system.

[fantom]

Impressive.....

Won't be long before folks start upgrading, and obsolete GTN-750's start hitting the used market at deep discount ;-)

[Txbyker]

Just upgraded my Foreflight to version 4.1.  At the bottom of the app it states "Coming in version 4.2....inflight weather".  Can't wait.