Switch Tanks, Switch Tanks, Switch Tanks!

[donkaye]

During all of my transition trainings, at some appropriate time, I will simulate an engine failure.  I have been emphasizing how to manipulate the controls and find a suitable field even if it is the airport.  I have not been emphasizing the importance of immediately (and what should be a memory item to do when time is of the essence and there is no time to pull out the checklist) switching tanks.

And as ridiculous and improbable as it may seem to accidentally end up with a tank dry when there is plenty of fuel in the other tank, there are unusual chain of events that can occur that can lead to that outcome.  Don't let it happen to you.

Always, and I mean always, pre brief before takeoff what you will do in the event of an engine failure on takeoff.  It will save 4 to 5 seconds of "startle effect" along with possibly saving your life.

[gsxrpilot]

One of several reasons I like to regularly run a tank dry at altitude. Switching tanks becomes the default quick reaction. I can recognize the very early initial symptoms of fuel starvation and instinctively reach for the fuel selector to switch tanks. Just performing an action, will get one past the initial "startle effect" and on to productive troubleshooting.

[jetdriven]

Pretty much all these light singles the first two things after power loss is switch tanks and turn the boost pump on. It should be an automatic response. Often there is no time for a checklist

Edited June 17, 2018 by jetdriven

[N201MKTurbo]

On my ATP checkride in that gawd awful Seneca. The examiner discreetly reached down between the seats and shut the fuel off to one of the engines. When it quite I reached down and switched tanks which turned the fuel back on. 

He was a bit mad and said he wanted to see how I would handle an engine failure. I said I did.

Edited June 17, 2018 by N201MKTurbo

[DAVIDWH]

A few years ago there was an FAA accident report of a pilot running a tank dry then switching tanks. Engine never restarted and pilot was killed.

FAA  findings were blocked injectors due to bottom tank debris sucked in from dry tank. 

Personally,  I stopped doing it after reading this report.

[Hank]

8 hours ago, donkaye said:

During all of my transition trainings, at some appropriate time, I will simulate an engine failure.  I have been emphasizing how to manipulate the controls and find a suitable field even if it is the airport.  I have not been emphasizing the importance of immediately (and what should be a memory item to do when time is of the essence and there is no time to pull out the checklist) switching tanks.

And as ridiculous and improbable as it may seem to accidentally end up with a tank dry when there is plenty of fuel in the other tank, there are unusual chain of events that can occur that can lead to that outcome.  Don't let it happen to you.

Always, and I mean always, pre brief before takeoff what you will do in the event of an engine failure on takeoff.  It will save 4 to 5 seconds of "startle effect" along with possibly saving your life.

One thing I forgot to do on my Flight Review when the CFI failed my engine was pull the prop back. He didn't mention it either. But it can significantly improve the glide. I had been running at 2300, down low at 3000msl maneuvering at the time. Instead, the engine "recovered" and I made a no-flap landing at my 3150' home field, after telling him it would not be my first choice without flaps, and that I would go the extra 10nm to a 5000' field instead.

[N201MKTurbo]

37 minutes ago, DAVIDWH said:

A few years ago there was an FAA accident report of a pilot running a tank dry then switching tanks. Engine never restarted and pilot was killed.

FAA  findings were blocked injectors due to bottom tank debris sucked in from dry tank. 

Personally,  I stopped doing it after reading this report.

I wonder where all that debris is normally sitting and why it isn’t sucked in all the time? The fuel pickup is always at the bottom of the tank.

[glafaille]

58 minutes ago, DAVIDWH said:

A few years ago there was an FAA accident report of a pilot running a tank dry then switching tanks. Engine never restarted and pilot was killed.

FAA  findings were blocked injectors due to bottom tank debris sucked in from dry tank. 

Personally,  I stopped doing it after reading this report.

 

Aren't the sumps placed at the lowest point in the fuel system?  Aren't the sumps drained before flight?  The fuel line pick up point should be above the sumps, right?  Unusable fuel accounts for the fuel remaining in the tank (sump) that is not available to the engine, specifically to catch garbage in the fuel system, right?

 I drain my sumps before every flight and rarely detect anything abnormal in the sample.  If I did find a bunch of garbage in the sample, I doubt I would fly the airplane until the source of the garbage was identified and corrected.

 

Sounds like the problem my have really been some really bad fuel, a failure of the pilot to drain the sumps before flight, or poor aircraft system design that doesn't incorporate a fuel sump (home built aircraft?). 

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, DAVIDWH said:

A few years ago there was an FAA accident report of a pilot running a tank dry then switching tanks. Engine never restarted and pilot was killed.

FAA  findings were blocked injectors due to bottom tank debris sucked in from dry tank. 

Personally,  I stopped doing it after reading this report.

And in the mean time how many planes have crashed because of fuel exhaustion or mis-management. As other's have said, the proper design of our fuel tanks, regular sumping, etc. make this type of problem exceedingly rare. Whereas fuel exhaustion or mis-management issues continue to kill pilots. Periodically running a tank dry is a common and recommended practice by many experts including Deakin, Busch, Braly, and others. The other option is to tanker fuel everywhere just to account for your guestimation of how much fuel you actually have in each tank.

[Mooneymite]

Every time the discussion of running out of fuel comes up, I think about how few Jets run out of gas.  Not to say it doesn't happen, but it's rare.  At the airlines, it is extremely rare and usually the result of a long chain of events which may not have had anything to do with fuel planning at all.

Is this just a matter of experience, or are there other factors?

[gsxrpilot]

We don't have the CRM that exists in the cockpit of a jet. Add to that that most of us are amateur/weekend pilots. We also don't have the automation or computers that most jets have. 

Attending the APS class in Ada, OK there was a discussion of how most private pilots over complicate fuel management, especially in low wing airplanes where we have to switch tanks. They put forward a very compelling argument that included simplifying the steps involved in fuel management (fewer tank switches) and the benefits of running a tank dry to ensure correct data on useable fuel and location of said fuel.

I've taken it to heart and it works so well and is so simple. My range has increased significantly as a result of knowing fuel. 

[Mooneymite]

59 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

We don't have the CRM that exists in the cockpit of a jet.

I agree that we don't, but just as airline pilots are trained in CRM, I think that GA pilots can learn it too.  CRM is not just about a co-pilot.  It is a systematic inclusion of all one's resources.

Single pilot CRM.....what a concept!

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, DAVIDWH said:

A few years ago there was an FAA accident report of a pilot running a tank dry then switching tanks. Engine never restarted and pilot was killed.

FAA  findings were blocked injectors due to bottom tank debris sucked in from dry tank. 

Personally,  I stopped doing it after reading this report.

Link?

if there’s trash in your fuel tank then the plane wasn’t airworthy to begin with. 

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Every time the discussion of running out of fuel comes up, I think about how few Jets run out of gas.  Not to say it doesn't happen, but it's rare.  At the airlines, it is extremely rare and usually the result of a long chain of events which may not have had anything to do with fuel planning at all.

Is this just a matter of experience, or are there other factors?

We don’t have a flight planning and load planning office planning our flights so all we have to do is double check their work.

[Mooneymite]

11 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

We don’t have a flight planning and load planning office planning our flights so all we have to do is double check their work.

In a way, we do, if we take advantage of the various flight planning services available on-line.  BUT, we have to use them.  I think single pilot CRM would include using such services as "resources".

I know when I fly somewhere in my Mooney, the minimum fuel suggested by Fltplan.com is an excellent cross-check of my own math.

Fltplan.com also produces an excellent weight and balance graph showing CG throughout the trip's fuel burn.  BUT, we have to use it.

[Bolter]

3 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Every time the discussion of running out of fuel comes up, I think about how few Jets run out of gas.  Not to say it doesn't happen, but it's rare.  At the airlines, it is extremely rare and usually the result of a long chain of events which may not have had anything to do with fuel planning at all.

Is this just a matter of experience, or are there other factors?

For those of you who don't know the famous Gimli Glider story, a serious complex causal chain let this airliner run dry over Canada.  The others I know of were less complex failures, like the Avianca jet over Long Island.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_52

[1964-M20E]

One case of an airliner running out of fuel happen here in New Orleans TACA airlines 737 ran out of fuel and landed safely about 20 miles east of MSY.  Everyone walked off the plane.  A few days or weeks later they turned it around and flew it out.  I'm not sure of any other case where a large plane like that in commercial service did an emergency off field landing and they flew the plane out again.

I have run one tank  dry in flight especially on long flights.  I want my remaining fuel all in one tank.  My fuel procedure with 54 gallon bladders is burn 10 gallons off the first tank.  Then run the second tank until dry if necessary or until I am 30 minutes from my destination.  I then switch back to tank 1.  About every 30 minutes or so I am cross checking fuel levels, flow rates and fuel used.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

In a way, we do, if we take advantage of the various flight planning services available on-line.  BUT, we have to use them.  I think single pilot CRM would include using such services as "resources".

I know when I fly somewhere in my Mooney, the minimum fuel suggested by Fltplan.com is an excellent cross-check of my own math.

Fltplan.com also produces an excellent weight and balance graph showing CG throughout the trip's fuel burn.  BUT, we have to use it.

I have a feeling that the people running out of fuel aren’t doing defective flight planning. They are doing no flight planning. Or forgetting to switch tanks.

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have a feeling that the people running out of fuel aren’t doing defective flight planning. They are doing no flight planning. Or forgetting to switch tanks.

I suspect you are correct.  Somehow the concept of single pilot CRM needs to be introduced into primary flight training.

When CRM was first introduced (circa 1975?), there was huge resistance and lots of jokes.  However it is now gospel bearing good fruit at all the airlines.

Maybe, just maybe, we can get those genrral aviation non-planners on board to use all the resources out there?

[HRM]

Repost from MAPAlist:

On Jun 17, 2018, at 1:58 AM, Donald Kaye <donkaye@earthlink.net> wrote:

And as ridiculous and improbable as it may seem to accidentally end up with a tank dry when there is plenty of fuel in the other tank, there are unusual chain of events that can occur that can lead to that outcome. Don’t let it happen to you,

 

It did. My first flight after my “insurance sentence” took me less than 20 minutes over to T78in search of cheap, self-serve AvGas. As I approached the engine began to sputter and I saw my life passing in front of me. Then I saw the article I had read the week before on AOPA about airplane crashes where the FAA found that 90% of them were ‘Pilot Error’ and the top third of those was ‘fuel management’. That’s when I looked down and saw the fuel selector was pointing to an empty tank. I switched it and the engine roared back to life. Happy ending and it made a ‘fuel management’ believer out of me.

 

Harley

M20E Super 21N5976Q @ KBPT

 

[carusoam]

Four big planes... ran out of fuel before their destination...

• The Gimli glider metric / English conversion issue... glided to and landed on a known, but closed military airport(?) Canada
• Taca in N.O. Landed on a levee(?)
• Avianca Airlines in NYC, miscommunication regarding fuel remaining... translation issue...
• Ethiopian airlines, hijacked, ran out of fuel, landed in the Indian Ocean...

I would say... if one tank ran dry unexpectedly... it is probably good to take the next opportunity to land on what is left in the other tank... something already isn’t going your way...

Pat yourself on the back for following Don’s advice above.   

That gives you enough time to do some math, fuel flow analysis, know how much fuel you really have on board....

Running out of fuel comes with some knowns or back-up info.... there is probably an indicator bouncing around off the bottom of the tank or the needle pointing strongly towards E...

having a fuel blockage while both fuel levels point to something other than E.... Following Don’s advice is great... but don’t continue on the flight... what ever blocked the first tank might be slowly blocking the only tank you have left...

Continue on only after you know what the challenge is....

PP thoughts only, I’m not qualified to discuss this very deeply.

Best regards,

-a-

[FBCK]

Different circumstances but it did run out of fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

 

[carusoam]

While following up on FBCK’s post...

I found a more complete list....

Amazing how many of these you will recognize.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_flights_that_required_gliding

Reminder: stay off this list... it never goes away... you have no right to be forgotten here.... 

Best regards,

-a-

[skydvrboy]

23 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

They put forward a very compelling argument that included simplifying the steps involved in fuel management (fewer tank switches) and the benefits of running a tank dry to ensure correct data on useable fuel and location of said fuel.

What is this simpler process?  My process (not that it is approved by anyone anywhere) is to run 15 - 30 minutes off my right tank (just to make sure fuel doesn't dump w/expansion), then switch to the left.  I run that tank until it has 10 gallons of fuel left, which becomes my reserve.  I then switch back to the right tank, knowing that if it ever runs out, I it's time to put it down and get fuel, ASAP.  I also don't switch tanks prior to landing unless I am getting low in my right tank.  Fuel management is one reason I do this, but the other is that my plane tends to roll to the left.  By intentionally creating an imbalance in the tanks, it doesn't take as much control input to fly straight.

[steingar]

I never take off without at least an hour in both tanks.  For me to change I have to unbuckle my seat belt, lean all the way over and hunt around for the switch.  I sit with the seat full forward, and can't see it with the belt on.  I've done it in flight, but I have the autopilot or my passenger fly the aircraft while I do.  I will definitely never attempt it in IMC without the autopilot engaged, I have to take my eyes off everything and bend all the way over, wonderful way to induce spatial disorientation.