E.I. E4 EGT

[Fookz92]

So my Alcor 4 channel EGT is shot. I ordered a E4 digital EGT from Spruce. My mechanic has it halfway installed and now says I cannot use it in place of my primary Alcor  because it is not STC'd as a primary for my Mooney. 

Has anyone else come across this? Does anyone have paperwork allowing this E4 install to be done on a J?

Edited May 20, 2018 by Fookz92

[cnoe]

So my Alcor 4 channel EGT is shot. I ordered a E4 digital EGT from Spruce. My mechanic has it halfway installed and now says I cannot use it in place of my primary Alcor  because it is not STC'd as a primary for my Mooney.  Has anyone else come across this? Does anyone have paperwork allowing this E4 install to be done on a J?

 

 

My understanding is that on my (most) Mooneys the EGT gauge is not part of the type certificate or Car 3 basic equipment and is not required, thus it can be removed entirely if desired. Read “Car 3 § 3.655 Required basic equipment.” You can therefore replace the original gauge with a TSO replacement gauge to be used as an advisory instrument. Mine was yanked when the JPI830 went in and the AI was fine with it. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/6ee01384f2e646e986258100005b0b61/$FILE/2A3_Rev57.pdf

 

 

 

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[carusoam]

Grab the MEL out of the POH...

The Alcor Without Numbers on it, calibrated by a screw from the front panel isn’t much of a primary indicator...

Fookz,

• got a pic of what you have?
• got a link to what you bought?
• got a POH with an MEL?

Anything would be better than the OEM EGT... But if you need to keep it per the reg... keep it and drill another hole for the new engine monitor...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, Fookz92 said:

So my Alcor 4 channel EGT is shot. I ordered a E4 digital EGT from Spruce. My mechanic has it halfway installed and now says I cannot use it in place of my primary Alcor  because it is not STC'd as a primary for my Mooney. 

Has anyone else come across this? Does anyone have paperwork allowing this E4 install to be done on a J?

Your A&P is either incredibly new or incredibly old.  Either way, the EGT is not required equipment.

[Fookz92]

26 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Your A&P is either incredibly new or incredibly old.  Either way, the EGT is not required equipment.

Even if the Alcor EGT was OEM equipment front the factory?

[Fookz92]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Grab the MEL out of the POH...

The Alcor Without Numbers on it, calibrated by a screw from the front panel isn’t much of a primary indicator...

Fookz,

• got a pic of what you have?
• got a link to what you bought?
• got a POH with an MEL?

Anything would be better than the OEM EGT... But if you need to keep it per the reg... keep it and drill another hole for the new engine monitor...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

Here is the pic. Look far right. 

The POH I had to rebuild and used the POH Mooney supplied me with (N1220G)

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Fookz92 said:

Even if the Alcor EGT was OEM equipment front the factory?

The original radios were installed as OEM equipment from the factory, too.  All of that stuff is optional per the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS).  Your A&P should know how to check that document, and you should have a downloaded copy as well.

[LANCECASPER]

On 5/20/2018 at 5:44 PM, Andy95W said:

The original radios were installed as OEM equipment from the factory, too.  All of that stuff is optional per the Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS).  Your A&P should know how to check that document, and you should have a downloaded copy as well.

+ 1

 

If it was me, I would rather put the money toward a engine monitor than just replace a 4 place EGT gauge. I'd be more concerned with CHT' than EGT and here's where i'd put it.

 

[cnoe]

Even if the Alcor EGT was OEM equipment front the factory?

It looks like the link to your TCDS was bad so here you go again: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/6ee01384f2e646e986258100005b0b61/$FILE/2A3_Rev57.pdf

 

Read page 30 carefully; the EGT gauge is not mentioned. It states that required equipment is spelled out in the CAR 3 standards which says you must have a CHT gauge but no EGT gauge. It’s therefore not required.

 

Also, our Part 91 Mooneys don’t have a “minimum equipment list” either.

 

Edited: Link still bad... try going here then doing a make/model search. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/Frameset?OpenPage

 

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[Fookz92]

36 minutes ago, cnoe said:

It looks like the link to your TCDS was bad so here you go again: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/6ee01384f2e646e986258100005b0b61/$FILE/2A3_Rev57.pdf

 

Read page 30 carefully; the EGT gauge is not mentioned. It states that required equipment is spelled out in the CAR 3 standards which says you must have a CHT gauge but no EGT gauge. It’s therefore not required.

 

Also, our Part 91 Mooneys don’t have a “minimum equipment list” either.

 

Edited: Link still bad... try going here then doing a make/model search. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/Frameset?OpenPage

 

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I appreciate you sending that link over. I have reviewed page 30 and will pass along to my IA. 

Here is what he is sending me and has the issue with.....

He is telling me that I can have the E4 installed only if the Alcor is operative because it was installed in the factory by Mooney. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Fookz92

[cnoe]

I appreciate you sending that link over. I have reviewed page 30 and will pass along to my IA. 

Here is what he is sending me and has the issue with.....

He is telling me that I can have the E4 installed only if the Alcor is operative because it was installed in the factory by Mooney. 

As others have mentioned I respectfully believe he is mistaken. If we were talking about the CHT gauge I would agree because it is specified as a requirement in the CAR 3 documents; that has been an issue for all of us that have JPI 700-800 series. We have to retain the original CHT gauge because it is required, primary, and those JPI models are NOT certified as primary instruments.

 

Our planes were certified under CAR 3, not Part 23. That is also stated in the TCDS. That is what controls what is required in our planes.

 

Try this link for the CAR 3 regs: http://www.navioneer.org/riprelay/Yet%20More%20Navion%20Files/car_part3.pdf

 

The applicable page is attached as a screenshot.

 

 

Edited: Sorry another bad link, due to Tapatalk I suppose. You can google it; the navioneer site has a copy. Here’s what you’re looking for.

 

 

 

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[Marauder]

I appreciate you sending that link over. I have reviewed page 30 and will pass along to my IA. 
Here is what he is sending me and has the issue with.....

He is telling me that I can have the E4 installed only if the Alcor is operative because it was installed in the factory by Mooney. 

Which shop are you working with? I would have them call over to Weber’s or AirMod’s. It is optional equipment. Do you have the original factory paperwork. It might even say optional EGT.


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[Igor_U]

20 hours ago, Fookz92 said:

So my Alcor 4 channel EGT is shot. I ordered a E4 digital EGT from Spruce. My mechanic has it halfway installed and now says I cannot use it in place of my primary Alcor  because it is not STC'd as a primary for my Mooney. 

Has anyone else come across this? Does anyone have paperwork allowing this E4 install to be done on a J?

I agree with comments above but it might be difficult to convince your A&P...

When I bought my M20F, it already had EI E4 installed in it in lieu of Alcor EGT.

 

[1964-M20E]

interesting conversation

I had the EI single CHT and EGT in my plane before I changed too the G2 monitor.

 

 

Not to hijack the thread but I did find this.   I always wondered why we don't have a both option on our fuel selector valves.  Now I know.

FFuel system arrangement.

Fuel systems shall be so arranged as to permit any

one fuel pump to draw fuel from only one tank at

a time. Gravity feed systems shall not supply fuel

to any one engine from more than one tank at a

time unless the tank air spaces are interconnected

in such a manner as to assure that all

interconnected tanks will feed equally.

[Marauder]

So my Alcor 4 channel EGT is shot. I ordered a E4 digital EGT from Spruce. My mechanic has it halfway installed and now says I cannot use it in place of my primary Alcor  because it is not STC'd as a primary for my Mooney. 
Has anyone else come across this? Does anyone have paperwork allowing this E4 install to be done on a J?

This might help you. Take a look at the original factory build sheet. For items that are part of the type certificate, it will be in the column with the type label:



For any “extra” equipment, it is listed this way:




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[Fookz92]

25 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

This might help you. Take a look at the original factory build sheet. For items that are part of the type certificate, it will be in the column with the type label:



For any “extra” equipment, it is listed this way:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

1 hour ago, 1964-M20E said:

interesting conversation

I had the EI single CHT and EGT in my plane before I changed too the G2 monitor.

 

 

Not to hijack the thread but I did find this.   I always wondered why we don't have a both option on our fuel selector valves.  Now I know.

FFuel system arrangement.

Fuel systems shall be so arranged as to permit any

one fuel pump to draw fuel from only one tank at

a time. Gravity feed systems shall not supply fuel

to any one engine from more than one tank at a

time unless the tank air spaces are interconnected

in such a manner as to assure that all

interconnected tanks will feed equally.

 

On 5/21/2018 at 9:45 AM, Igor_U said:

I agree with comments above but it might be difficult to convince your A&P...

When I bought my M20F, it already had EI E4 installed in it in lieu of Alcor EGT.

 

Thanks all for the posts and suggestions. I was able to come up with the correct documentation to convince my IA to get this airplane signed off. This is the last piece of the puzzle. Thank you. 

[Piloto]

I replaced my previous LCD EGT with the UBG-16. Very happy with it. It also shows fuel flow, OAT and voltage

[Fookz92]

6 hours ago, Piloto said:

I replaced my previous LCD EGT with the UBG-16. Very happy with it. It also shows fuel flow, OAT and voltage

Next annual I will upgrade to this. Was looking at JPI 450 Fuel computer to add in the panel along with this new E4 I am installing now. But since this has all of it in one instrument, this seems the way to go. And just scrap the E4  completely. 

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, Piloto said:

I replaced my previous LCD EGT with the UBG-16. Very happy with it. It also shows fuel flow, OAT and voltage

Piloto (a/k/a Jose Monroy) . . .  nice subliminal commercial for http://www.monroyaero.com/

[Piloto]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

Piloto (a/k/a Jose Monroy) . . .  nice subliminal commercial for http://www.monroyaero.com/

The tag is to avoid mix ups at the repair station. So I know I am getting back my original unit.

José

[LANCECASPER]

Every Mooney should have Monroy Long Rang Tanks - makes your Mooney a traveling machine, extending the range and giving you a lot of options!!

[cnoe]

Every Mooney should have Monroy Long Rang Tanks - makes your Mooney a traveling machine, extending the range and giving you a lot of options!!

With all due respect to Jose’s fine modification I personally have no need for it.

I can fly 990 nm for 6.6 hours (+ VFR reserve) with my stock tanks which is well beyond my personal limits.

IMO every Monroy LR tank installation should include a free Monroy relief assembly (along with a free belly-washing contract). But until there’s female-friendly and dog-friendly options I’ll have to keep limiting my flights to 990 nm or less.


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[N6758N]

Hunter,

It looks to me like that EGT system was installed at the Factory via Supplemental Type Certificate (STC), so No, it won't be on the TCDS. However in order to remove it correctly, another 337 should be completed to remove the STC (and therefore the gauge) from the airplane.