Garmin pilot NOS airport diagram (is this true)

[Jim Peace]

Using Garmin Pilot with the flight stream 510 from a GTN650, I can see my own ship on all maps and approach plates.  I cannot see myself on an NOS airport diagram except for their own version of safe taxi.  I was at SNF today and spoke to their Garmin Pilot expert and he says that yes it is true that they have not turned on the ability to see your own ship on the airport diagram and that it can only been seen on their safe taxi diagram.

This is not the case with Foreflight.  They let you see own ship on the NOS airport diagram.  

I told the Garmin expert that their safe taxi chart sucks because before you taxi or if you are done with run up or you have multiple ground or tower Freqs at certain airports you must switch between the NOS airport diagram to get the freqs and their safe taxi chart to see yourself.  Where on ForeFlight you do not need to do that, its all on the NOS chart.

This Garmin "expert" said I was the only person to complain about that and he does not think it would be that useful to see yourself on the NOS chart.  

Can I be the only person in the world who wants to see themselves on an NOS chart that contains all the other vital information?

I just spent 30k on Garmin products plus the labor.....Fuck them........

[Hank]

I understand your frustration with Garmin. Rather like apple, it's their way or no way. So my tablet and phone are both Samsung. While I like my G430W, I don't pay for any tablet apps. Navigation is conducted right there in the panel, where the certified nav unit runs its certified database and gives readouts both on its own certified Nav page and on the separate, certified Nav heads. Why put up with the frustration of dealing with a freaking app after paying for certified instruments to be installed???

I am beginning use Avare, a free android app, to replace my bound Approach Plates. It shows me on the airport and on the approach plates. Everything is downloaded free through the app. It also has sectionals, Hi / Low Enroutes,  etc., but I find panning and scrolling with frequent zooming in and out (out for distance views, in to read what it says) to be inconvenient on the ground and downright aggravating in the air, to the point that I rarely use the maps for much beyond preflight planning. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Hank

[kortopates]

Yes, very true that GP government airport diagrams are not geo-referenced since they instead provide safe-taxi diagrams.
I can’t say for sure since I am not Garmin, but I always assumed they did this because the government charts are very lacking for airport charts. Your base like mine may have them, but many instrument airports do not. So I assume GP didn’t want to provide 2 different methods: airport diagram when available and safe taxi when not. They do provide safe taxi for all airports with instrument approaches AFAIK.

There is another option in GP to get geo-referenced airport diagrams but it may not interest you because of the $. But you could add a Jeppsen subscription to get them if you want them that much.

Personally I never gave the lack of frequencies on the safe taxi diagrams a thought. My habit it to get the ATIS, talk to ground and perhaps Clearance and enter all frequencies I’ll need before I begin taxiing for the runway. So I’ve never missed them, plus at an unfamiliar airport I am more likely to load the freq by selecting them off the panel GPS from the nearest airport page rather than enter them a digit at a time. Now I can use intellivoice commands to verbally load nearest ATIS, ground, etc. just pushing a button.


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[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

So I assume GP didn’t want to provide 2 different methods: airport diagram when available and safe taxi when not. 

Foreflight does it.......

I have a feeling I am just going to renew my foreflight subscription.....the GP app is just like their avionics....not intuitive, clumsy and a total pain in the ass......

[Kmac]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:15 PM, Hank said:

I understand your frustration with Garmin. Rather like apple, it's their way or no way. So my tablet and phone are both Samsung. While I like my G430W, I don't pay for any tablet apps. Navigation is conducted right there in the panel, where the certified nav unit runs its certified database and gives readouts both on its own certified Nav page and on the separate, certified Nav heads. Why put up with the frustration of dealing with a freaking app after paying for certified instruments to be installed???

I am beginning use Avare, a free android app, to replace my bound Approach Plates. It shows me on the airport and on the approach plates. Everything is downloaded free through the app. It also has sectionals, Hi / Low Enroutes,  etc., but I find panning and scrolling with frequent zooming in and out (out for distance views, in to read what it says) to be inconvenient on the ground and downright aggravating in the air, to the point that I rarely use the maps for much beyond preflight planning. 

+1 for Avare... I have been using it since it first came out.

[donkaye]

On 4/14/2018 at 6:32 PM, Jim Peace said:

Foreflight does it.......

I have a feeling I am just going to renew my foreflight subscription.....the GP app is just like their avionics....not intuitive, clumsy and a total pain in the ass......

Each application takes a lot of time to become familiar with all of its utility.  I haven't taken a lot of time to become familiar with Foreflight, so I don't know it very well.  I have spent a lot of time with Garmin Pilot, so know it very well.  It is an excellent app.  I can file IFR in less than a minute after putting in the flight plan.  A 360° view of best glide range is shown on the Map page.  I do have the Jeppesen approach plate overlay, and it works well, but I primarily run the approaches using the Aera 796 on the yoke  with iPad, G500 (soon to be the G500TXi), and GTN 750 as backup.  One of the reasons for staying with one manufacture is that you can count on everything interfacing well together.

Personally, while I'm glad there is some competition for Garmin to keep their prices somewhat in check, the quality of their products and how much I like their human interface will keep me coming back to Garmin for any new avionics I want.  Now, if they would only certify their GFC 600 for the Mooney...

[ArtVandelay]

Foreflight does it.......
I have a feeling I am just going to renew my foreflight subscription.....the GP app is just like their avionics....not intuitive, clumsy and a total pain in the ass......

GP biggest plus when I was picking was the dynamic maps. The radial technique I actually liked, many prefer having drop down menus of FF.

FF was better at planning (although G fixed most of that, I don’t think they allow naming of saved trips still) and their approach procedure selection was better.

There is a couple of videos on YouTube with details (~20 minutes long) if you search ff vs gp

[Jim Peace]

Just renewed my FF subscription.  Played with GP a lot today and many phone calls to their tech support and finding out that although many say its a "powerful app" it really just should be used as a backup to FF.  They are so messed up with a lot of things its not even funny.

A big downside for me is I still have to pay for the GP app to have connext work for my database downloads.  I do not have a hangar and all over the place so this will be useful.

safe taxi will be the only taxi chart they will support, which is fine but they have no plans on putting frequencies on the chart.  So you must go back and forth within the app if you need to reference another frequency.  

There are a bunch of airports they do not support either such as 7FL6 {Spruce Creek FL}. They will not even put the frequencies on their airport info and they have no plans to do so ever.  FF does it though.

And many people told me I should get GP a month or a year free but the guys at GP never heard of this......

Also on FF they have the packing feature.  You know right away if for some reason you do not have some data available for offline viewing.  The tech people at GP confirmed they do not have this feature and it is up to you to go through all your data and see what you may or may not have.  They have no plans on changing this.

It may not be a big deal for some but as a guy who crosses the country a lot it is easy to get caught without some data....FF makes sure you are always covered.  GP does not care.

have I said FCUK Garmin yet today?

 

[Marauder]

Just renewed my FF subscription.  Played with GP a lot today and many phone calls to their tech support and finding out that although many say its a "powerful app" it really just should be used as a backup to FF.  They are so messed up with a lot of things its not even funny.
A big downside for me is I still have to pay for the GP app to have connext work for my database downloads.  I do not have a hangar and all over the place so this will be useful.
safe taxi will be the only taxi chart they will support, which is fine but they have no plans on putting frequencies on the chart.  So you must go back and forth within the app if you need to reference another frequency.  
There are a bunch of airports they do not support either such as 7FL6 {Spruce Creek FL}. They will not even put the frequencies on their airport info and they have no plans to do so ever.  FF does it though.
And many people told me I should get GP a month or a year free but the guys at GP never heard of this......
Also on FF they have the packing feature.  You know right away if for some reason you do not have some data available for offline viewing.  The tech people at GP confirmed they do not have this feature and it is up to you to go through all your data and see what you may or may not have.  They have no plans on changing this.
It may not be a big deal for some but as a guy who crosses the country a lot it is easy to get caught without some data....FF makes sure you are always covered.  GP does not care.
have I said FCUK Garmin yet today?
 

As you probably know from my MooneySpace dances with Peter Garmin, I’m not a diehard Garmin fan. Primarily because they don’t play well with others.

I’m on Garmin Pilot and use SafeTaxi. It’s fine for getting me around an airport. With that new Garmin GTN in the panel, hopefully you realize looking up a freq is a lot easier using the GTN itself. I just touch the standby freq, select my destination airport and pick the freq I want. From there it is just a matter of hitting enter to make it the standby freq or hitting the XFER to make it active.

If you want to go one more step forward, install the Telligence feature and speak it.

Again, not promoting them but some of the stuff they do makes it easier.


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[Jim Peace]

7 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I just touch the standby freq, select my destination airport and pick the freq I want. From there it is just a matter of hitting enter to make it the standby freq or hitting the XFER to make it active.

 

It is so much easier and faster and more accurate to just see the freq on the chart and dial it in on my GTR225.  My GTN650 is reserved to maintain a watch on 121.5 and Atis.  Comm 2 is my primary. 

at airports where you have 3 or so ground Freqs and dedicate tower Freqs for certain runways the GTN may not be that easy.

A picture is worth a 1000 words 

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

It is so much easier and faster and more accurate to just see the freq on the chart and dial it in on my GTR225.  My GTN650 is reserved to maintain a watch on 121.5 and Atis.  Comm 2 is my primary. 

at airports where you have 3 or so ground Freqs and dedicate tower Freqs for certain runways the GTN may not be that easy.

A picture is worth a 1000 words 

I hear ya. It was like that for me when I shifted over from the Jepp charts. 

I do find it interesting that you use the GTN as the monitoring radio. I have a GTN and GTR225 as well. I use the GTN for all the primary communication and keep 121.5 on the GTR. As for the frequencies, SafeTaxi certainly doesn't contain this information but the larger airports all have an airport diagram that does have the frequencies. I typically will pull that up if I want to preload frequencies. 

[jlunseth]

I just use Foreflight. A lot less anguish over what you can and can’t do with it, and the cost is an iPad plus a subscription instead of buying high-AMU panel mounted equipment that will eventually not be supported.

[Yetti]

I downloaded the Avidyne simulator and it is like stone age User Interface, I am talking hammer and chisel.   I have the tablet in the mount running droidefb and the phone running droidefb.    The tablet is for general navigation course and timing.  The phone is for looking stuff up.  On the Flight Review when I shot my first approach ever under the hood.  He said you are doing pretty well.   I was following the phone in my lap with the georeferenced plate.   Looked up and the needles were a bit off, but the geo plate was spot on. I think he was a little annoyed when he found I was cheating with the phone.  Both are synced to the Statux in the back with the $11 GPS as a source.

I had used it earlier to find his airport, It is an airpark that the city has now surrounded.   Low pattern entry with the sun in my eyes.   Put myself into the pattern with the phone, flew pattern to final, and then saw the grass runway when I got close enough.

For the money they charge the certified market really should spend some time with the User Interface. It's not how things are done anymore.

[MyNameIsNobody]

First world problems...

[Marauder]

First world problems...

I liked it better when we had problems starting fires with sticks and figuring out how we were going to kill the Wooly Mammoth with homemade clubs and spears.


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[Jim Peace]

21 hours ago, Marauder said:

 the larger airports all have an airport diagram that does have the frequencies. I typically will pull that up if I want to preload frequencies. 

Yes I know that.. This is the reason for the whole thread.  FF has the georeference on the airport diagram.  GP refuses to do it and never will....

[Hank]

55 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Yes I know that.. This is the reason for the whole thread.  FF has the georeference on the airport diagram.  GP refuses to do it and never will....

I thought that was why you spent all that change on the GTN, so it would all be right there in the panel. Using it for only ATIS and 121.5 while pecking at everything else between COM2 and your tablet just seems like wasted money for the GTN and wasted effort trying to get it all into COM2 when it's all right there in COM1/NAV1. But maybe I misunderstand, as I'm still twisting and click-clicking on my GNS 430W . . . .

[zaitcev]

On 4/16/2018 at 2:01 PM, Jim Peace said:

safe taxi will be the only taxi chart they will support, which is fine but they have no plans on putting frequencies on the chart.  So you must go back and forth within the app if you need to reference another frequency.  

I have those frequencies on the kneepad.

 

On 4/16/2018 at 2:01 PM, Jim Peace said:

have I said FCUK Garmin yet today?

Of course you have. I remember laughing back then, too. Well, I suppose I would be laughing less if I were flying into O'Hare or LaGuardia.