Wire welder

[DonMuncy]

I (mostly) self taught myself to gas weld almost 50 years ago, and manage to do a credible job. Several years later I got a stick arc welder, and never got very good at it, especially on thinner material. (In my experience, everybody who welds is better at the system they first learned on).

Somebody told me that the wire welders are much easier to learn to use than stick welders. Although I don't do much welding, I am contemplating getting a cheap wire welder and giving it a try. Any and all thoughts, pro and con are appreciated.

[critchdizzle]

Looking at getting one soon myself, for a hot rod project I'm working on. I took an auto body class at the local vo-tech and the instructor there recommended Eastwood MIG welders as a good budget-friendly welder. Here's the one I'm looking at getting myself:

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html

[kerry]

I've have a mig 170 wire feed welder from harbor freight.  It's a 220v.  I've had it a few years with no problems.  I find it much easier to weld with vs. a ARC welder.

[N601RX]

I would suggest spending a little more and getting a name brand. I got a HF one back in the 90's and it requires constant adjustment and tweeting. As it heated up the output dropped noticeable even at lower settings. Perhaps they are better now. I later got a Miller unit and it never requires adjustment once set and feeds well.   If you think you might want to weld aluminum Miller sells a reasonably priced hand gun that will feed aluminum wire.   A few years ago Indiana welding had the best online prices. 

Although they are a little pricier there are some really nice compact portable inverter based stuff available. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by N601RX

[peevee]

I have an autoarc flux core which is supposed to be made by Hobart. I'm happy enough with it.

I agree, get a decent brand. A 240 if you can.

The hf ones run ac, don't do that. The welding forums are pretty down on the eastwoods these days.

[carusoam]

Don,  do you have a project picked out that needs the welder, or are you still looking for that too?

I'm looking forward to pics of Your next project.

Best regards,

-a-

[DonMuncy]

13 minutes ago, peevee said:

I have an autoarc flux core which is supposed to be made by Hobart. I'm happy enough with it.

I agree, get a decent brand. A 240 if you can.

The hf ones run ac, don't do that. The welding forums are pretty down on the eastwoods these days.

Other than using less electricity, what advantages do you perceive from 240v.

[DonMuncy]

Just now, carusoam said:

Don,  do you have a project picked out that needs the welder, or are you still looking for that too?

I'm looking forward to pics of Your next project.

Best regards,

-a-

No, strangely enough, I don't have a project in mind. However, if I wind up building more tugs, I might use it rather than gas welding.

[N601RX]

The older transformer based 120 units just didn't work very well at all.    Most of the newer inverter based stuff will work very well on 120 but you will be limited on output to the lower output setting of the unit. Then you can remove the plug adaptor and plug into 240 for full output. 

I have one of the miller inverter based plasma cutters that will work off either. It will do good on 3/32 material  with 120 volts or will do up to 3/8 when plugged into 240. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by N601RX

[peevee]

19 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Other than using less electricity, what advantages do you perceive from 240v.

More capacity. They're supposed to be easier to weld with. Better duty cycles

[nels]

Don. I had a Lindey years ago and hated it. About 25 yrs ago I bought a Miller 220 Volt. Mig welding is pretty easy. If you have a bottle you can typically run .035 wire or .023 for thinner stuff like sheet metal. This type unit is pricey but worth it if you intend to use it a lot. Probably in your case, and I'm only guessing, a cheap Harbor Freight flux core unit would suffice. If you you decide you like welding with the mig you can sell the cheap one for a slight loss and buy a substantial unit. Personally I love the mig. It beats the heck out of a stick welder and the oxy acetylene units.

[Yooper Rocketman]

I've been in the welding and truck repair business all my life (now a truck dealership and trailer manufacturer).  Back in the 80's my guys used stick more often than wire.  I could probably sell my one and only stick machine if it were not for the fact they do all the TIG aluminum welding with it.  All production work is with our wire machines now .  Go wire Don!!

Tom

 

One of our recently completed smaller trailers.........

[DonMuncy]

41 minutes ago, nels said:

Don. I had a Lindey years ago and hated it. About 25 yrs ago I bought a Miller 220 Volt. Mig welding is pretty easy. If you have a bottle you can typically run .035 wire or .023 for thinner stuff like sheet metal. This type unit is pricey but worth it if you intend to use it a lot. Probably in your case, and I'm only guessing, a cheap Harbor Freight flux core unit would suffice. If you you decide you like welding with the mig you can sell the cheap one for a slight loss and buy a substantial unit. Personally I love the mig. It beats the heck out of a stick welder and the oxy acetylene units.

"If I have a bottle"? Pardon my ignorance. What does that mean.

You are guessing right. I don't weld very much at all.

I really kind of enjoy gas welding, but the hooking up all the stuff is a bit of a PITA. And fighting with the fire marshal about my gas and O2 tanks is worse.

[RLCarter]

Wire feed (MIG) is better than stick, don't bother with flux core wire use Argon for the shielding gas (the "bottle"), personally I would spend the bucks and go Heli-Arc (TIG) with a foot controller, very similar to gas welding plus with an AC/DC machine you can weld steel, stainless, aluminum, etc....... Cons for wire feed, the wire will bind if there is tight bend in the lead, Cons for Heli-Arc the material has to be very clean

[nels]

4 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

"If I have a bottle"? Pardon my ignorance. What does that mean.

You are guessing right. I don't weld very much at all.

I really kind of enjoy gas welding, but the hooking up all the stuff is a bit of a PITA. And fighting with the fire marshal about my gas and O2 tanks is worse.

Don, the bottle is the tank required for regular wire welding; It is the argon/co2 shielding gas that keeps the weld from oxidizing. The flux wire has a flux core which when heated while welding emits its own shielding gas like the flux on your sticks with your arc welder. Since you probably just want to play around and experiment the flux welders are cheap and usually 110 volt and will get you through the amateur projects. As mentioned, heliarc is nice but it's slow and you will probably never get proficient at it unless you use it a lot. Try the cheap mig first as it's very portable and cheap to begin with. Just my opinion of course.

[Raptor05121]

Tom, that is a helluva lot of tires!

[DonMuncy]

Thanks to all. Especially to Nels, for the flux core explanation. It would appear that using flux core wire would cut out complexity and cost. Do they make flux core aluminum wire, in case I wanted to try my hand at aluminum.

[carusoam]

28 wheels on the smaller trailer... 

Don has a way of asking all the right questions...

MS has a way of assembling all the right answers, from a wealth of resources...

Personal experience is the king of resources..!

Go MS!

That's a lot of people with welding experience.

Best regards,

-a-

[nels]

2 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Thanks to all. Especially to Nels, for the flux core explanation. It would appear that using flux core wire would cut out complexity and cost. Do they make flux core aluminum wire, in case I wanted to try my hand at aluminum.

Don, don't know about aluminum. I will say I've never heard of anyone doing it but that's probably because anyone doing aluminum welding does a lot of welding and has a professional setup.

[Yooper Rocketman]

7 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Thanks to all. Especially to Nels, for the flux core explanation. It would appear that using flux core wire would cut out complexity and cost. Do they make flux core aluminum wire, in case I wanted to try my hand at aluminum.

Don,

Not aware of a flux core aluminum.  Like nels noted, aluminum welding is more commonly done by professional shops using "shielded gas" (argon or CO-2) welding.  We actually do a ton more welding with TIG than wire (aluminum fuel and hydraulic tanks, all the tiny mod parts I made for the Lancair, etc.....).  For aluminum welding I find wire to be "crude", fine for large aluminum trailer repairs but not something for more precise work.

A couple tips from a stick welder (me) that transitioned to wire;

If the wire doesn't come out when pulling the trigger, stop immediately.  You're bunching up wire at the feed end because you've got splatter on the tip and the wire is not able to move up the whip.  To fix that issue, cut the wire where it goes into the whip at the drive end, pull the tip (unless you can grab the wire there with wire cutters) and pull it through.  Cut off the bundled up wire at the machine and re-feed into the whip.  

Use an anti-splatter paste, keeping it right on the welding machine, dipping the tip into it occasionally when hot.  It helps a lot with the first issue I just described.

Practice your feed rate and amperage settings on scrap material about the same thickness you plan to weld until you are comfortable determining those settings without a test.

As in arc welding (stick), have a very clean welding helmet glass so you can determine your flux vs. your molten weld material providing you the cleanest weld (keeping your flux out of the weld joint).  Be careful with thin material.  Unlike stick welding where you have to heat the material excessively to drop out a hole in your material, the wire feed will "PUSH" a hole through sooner on thin material.

Lastly don't do like the TV motorcycle shops do, welding without the helmet!

Tom

[DonMuncy]

1 minute ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Don,

If the wire doesn't come out when pulling the trigger, stop immediately.  You're bunching up wire at the feed end because you've got splatter on the tip and the wire is not able to move up the whip.  To fix that issue, cut the wire where it goes into the whip at the drive end, pull the tip (unless you can grab the wire there with wire cutters) and pull it through.  Cut off the bundled up wire at the machine and re-feed into the whip.  

Use an anti-splatter paste, keeping it right on the welding machine, dipping the tip into it occasionally when hot.  It helps a lot with the first issue I just described.

Practice your feed rate and amperage settings on scrap material about the same thickness you plan to weld until you are comfortable determining those settings without a test.

As in arc welding (stick), have a very clean welding helmet glass so you can determine your flux vs. your molten weld material providing you the cleanest weld (keeping your flux out of the weld joint).  Be careful with thin material.  Unlike stick welding where you have to heat the material excessively to drop out a hole in your material, the wire feed will "PUSH" a hole through sooner on thin material.

Lastly don't do like the TV motorcycle shops do, welding without the helmet!

Tom

Thanks Tom. This is the kind of information I need. Can you give me an opinion about TIG vs wire. Which is easiest, cheapest, best results, etc. This is coming from a guy who never really got the knack of striking an arc with a stick welder. Also, what about "self darkening" hoods. Mine is from the era before those existed,

 

[Yooper Rocketman]

Just now, DonMuncy said:

Thanks Tom. This is the kind of information I need. Can you give me an opinion about TIG vs wire. Which is easiest, cheapest, best results, etc. This is coming from a guy who never really got the knack of striking an arc with a stick welder. Also, what about "self darkening" hoods. Mine is from the era before those existed,

 

TIG is probably more like "GAS" welding, in that you are using the tungsten tip and amp control on the handle to control the heat, inert gas shielding the weld, and feeding aluminum in much like you would in a gas weld.  These machines are usually water cooled as well, requiring a water source and drain point for the cooling water.  The issue is the cost of the equipment for TIG vs. wire.  If you're not doing a LOT of aluminum, you will struggle getting good at it and the cost is not as effective as wire is for standard metal welding.  We only use TIG at my fab shop for aluminum, using wire for 90% of the welding work.  You're looking at two different skill sets for TIG vs. wire feed welding.  I would stick with a flux core 120 volt wire feed unit as this will most likely fit 90% of your needs with a very reasonable (and resale value option) cost of entry.  Take your aluminum to someone that does it a lot.  You will probably save money in the end, especially when considering the up front costs and stocking inert gas.

I don't weld much anymore, but all my welders use the new hoods.  If I was to take on a large project, the hood would be my first upgrade!  For now, I drop the project off in my fab shop and seek out the best welder for the particular job I am doing!  

Oh.... you'll find wire much easier to strike an arc too, as long as your feed and amperage are set right.

Tom

[DonMuncy]

Thanks Tom

[nels]

Auto darkening hood at Harbor Freight is about $50. Best investment you'll make.

Edited October 23, 2017 by nels

[peevee]

43 minutes ago, nels said:

Auto darkening hood at Harbor Freight is about $50. Best investment you'll make.

Mine is hard to see when welding.