Should we Still Teach Old Tech??

[carusoam]

Any idea of the time lapse between the broken cable and the crew ejection?

That happened so fast it was tough to see and know what is happening, as a spectator who has been fully briefed in advance!

Thanks for putting in the effort to post the video.

I'm pretty sure I can apply the situation to Mooney flying.   Thinking about the next steps as far out as possible...

We don't get cable breaks, but we can get a lot of other situations that are Best thought out in advance...

Thanks again...

Best regards,

-a-

[M016576]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Any idea of the time lapse between the broken cable and the crew ejection?

That happened so fast it was tough to see and know what is happening, as a spectator who has been fully briefed in advance!

Thanks for putting in the effort to post the video.

I'm pretty sure I can apply the situation to Mooney flying.   Thinking about the next steps as far out as possible...

We don't get cable breaks, but we can get a lot of other situations that are Best thought out in advance...

Thanks again...

Best regards,

-a-

I was(am) the pilot, along with my WSO.  I noticed that something was wrong about half way into the trap: the deceleration kind of "stopped" and I felt a buck and an acceleration, the end of landing area was moving quickly towards me, too quickly: I knew I couldn't stop the plane (it looked like I only had about 15-20 feet of deck left), and I saw 48 KTS in the HUD, so I knew I couldn't fly away (need about 100 knots for that)- that's when I yelled ejected while going for the ejection handle.  

Total time from initiation to ejection of the WSO seat is ~.4 seconds.. from initiation to pilot seat ejection is ~.7 seconds. (~.3 seconds between the back and front seats, and the back seat goes first). 

If you play the video frame by frame, you'll see that the jet has fallen off the front of the carrier by the time my ejection seat leaves the plane: you can see the rocket motor of the seat fire, and I fly just about parallel to the flight deck, which lands me with one swing in the chute about 2-300 feet in front of the boat... and I'm summarily run over by it.

we practice in the simulator quite a bit: emergencies such as cold catapult shots, and brake failures.  We never practice wires parting, because it's very rare (it's happened maybe 3 times in the last 40 years).  But the principles of many carrier mishaps are similar- if the jet is going to go over the side- try to get out ASAP.  

Also worth noting- we never use brakes during the arrestment, and our anti-skid system is turned off.  If you had braking pressure applied, you'd certainly blow a tire- the jets are too heavy and moving too fast.  It's pretty much the wire or nothing until you get to taxi speed.

Edited September 11, 2017 by M016576

[ryoder]

The old E6B is kind of stupid. Instead use trigonometry.  Or just use a E6B smartphone app.  The old whiz wheel is odd and outdated.  It still doesn't teach one the fundamentals of trig.

[Hank]

32 minutes ago, ryoder said:

The old E6B is kind of stupid. Instead use trigonometry.  Or just use a E6B smartphone app.  The old whiz wheel is odd and outdated.  It still doesn't teach one the fundamentals of trig.

But the wind chart on the back teaches (and shows) about the effect of cross- and headwinds. Haven't spun the wheel to calculate anything in flight since my checkride in 2007 . . . But I like the wind thing on the back. 

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

I have access to two Ipads and an Iphone, In-dash Gps, and my girlfriends android with Avare.  Also I can use Cosine and Sine to figure out wind correction or crosswind with any calculator.  Should we teach old tech, not really.  Should we all learn to make bread just in case it's not around?  I think messing around with an E6B and fumbling a clumsy chart in flight takes time from looking out the window, I think they are more dangerous and you are more prone to errors.  I think you are more likely to accidentally bust airspace.  How many carry a road Atlas in your car in case your phone dies?

I think those saying you should have to learn the E6B should have to take trigonometry to learn how the wind correction portion is laid out and do a mathematical proof of how it works before you use the Wiz-Bang gadget E6B.  I think you should have to make one out of discarded items found at airstrips in case your E6B fell out the window.  In-case you don't have paper you should learn how to refine paper from woodchips and then make an E6B.  How much is too much?

At some point as technology progresses you have to leave out some of the old crap, use the best tools available and take REASONABLE precautions to have a backup (Like print the Navlog from your foreflight plan, so you have all the headings should you lose all three I-products in flight, plus your panel GPS.)  Hanging on to some romance of using the same thing Amelia used when she got lost is silly.  Nobody loves old tech as much as me, but when my ass or the asses of people I care about is on the line I don't use it.  I love looking at an old bomb site, or flight suite at a museum, or the aiming system for a Sherman tank and thinking wow these guys got it done, they accomplished alot with what they had.  I don't think, however, you should have to do your first mission in a Sherman in so you know how in-case your Abrams breaks down and all you have is a Sherman.  

People hang on to this idea (especially if they already have their license and don't have to be re-tested on the E6B) because they think of it as a right of passage with some far-fetched justification analogous to something like: "You should learn binary, before you use a computer in case you have to send an email over a phone line by touching two wires together"  

Well, I've got to back to my E6B flight planning for our dual XC since my instructor started with the E6B and thinks I should know it too!  After check ride I will throw it out the window in accordance with 91.15.  

Just my Two Cents. 

[Andy95W]

6 minutes ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

 or the aiming system for a Sherman tank and thinking wow these guys got it done, they accomplished alot with what they had.  I don't think, however, you should have to do your first mission in a Sherman in so you know how in-case your Abrams breaks down and all you have is a Sherman.  

Abrams tank crews, even today, are still required to traverse, elevate, aim, and shoot by hand with all the fancy electronics and electric motors turned off as part of gunnery qualifications, just in case.  It effectively turns the M1 into a very cool looking M4 Sherman with better range.

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

Just now, Andy95W said:

Abrams tank crews, even today, are still required to traverse, elevate, aim, and shoot by hand with all the fancy electronics and electric motors turned off as part of gunnery qualifications, just in case.  It effectively turns the M1 into a very cool looking M4 Sherman with better range.

Then, that was a bad example, stop proving me wrong!  I'm sending this by tapping bare wires cause all three of my computers, both phones, and my ipads failed explosively.  

Edited October 29, 2017 by Grandmas Flying Couch

[Yetti]

9 hours ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

  How many carry a road Atlas in your car in case your phone dies?

 

You do know that you Google maps breaks when cell phone service goes away?   Yes I have a Texas Atlas with me just because I know that cell phone can be spotty just 90 miles from Houston when you get on some dirt roads 17 miles from the highway. 

And yes I have been IT for 30 years and can still do binary in my head and know how many bits are in a word.

Have I ever done a wind compass correction with deviation since I took my checkride?  Nope.

Do I understand a wind check on final.  Nope.   I already know it because of how I am flying the plane.  Which is something you can't teach.

There is some reliance on teaching people to fly by the numbers and then when the numbers fail them they don't know what to do.   Just like the guy above said.  I felt deceleration stopping... bet he was already reaching for the ejection before he was yelling eject.

Instead of teaching old tech, we should teach flying by the seat of the pants.