Anyone else fail the colorblind test?

[Capitalist]

I just did my first FAA exam and crap, I failed the colorblind test hard... I didn't get a single slide right. I've never felt like I had a problem with colors before  

No one has ever diagnosed me with this so I was totally unprepared for what I heard next. No night flying or flying by "color control".

Anyone else do the whole dog and pony show to get this restriction lifted with a demonstration of ability?

How bad would it be to only travel by day assuming I fail that too?

 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Capitalist

[carusoam]

Many of us are daytime only pilots by choice...

Stand by for some helpful advice while the cavalry comes in...

Best regards,

-a-

[RLCarter]

Plan a trip to your local FSDO for a SODA, it's a one time deal

[Capitalist]

16 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Many of us are daytime only pilots by choice...

Stand by for some helpful advice while the cavalry comes in...

Best regards,

-a-

I totally understand how much safer it is to fly in the daytime, I still don't want the restriction.

I'm positive that even if 99.9 percent of my flights are in daylight hours, one day I'll wish I could fly at night. 

[carusoam]

See if you have any challenges reviewing charts using foreflight or WingX...  the fine details that have color based details can be quite subtle.  You definitely want to see TFRs and things that may not stand out very easily...

It may be just a level of practice to see the numbers in those funky charts. Practice helps.  

I got practice because I worked with various colors in the plastics industry.  Trying to get things as close as possible so nobody can tell the difference... until you take them outside, and the light source changes...  

I expect that if this is the first time you have heard of this issue, it probably will take some effort to overcome.  But overcome, you will...

Did they tell you anything about what wasn't working for you?  Particular color or shading?

PP advice only, not an eye Dr....

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

I assume you can tell green from red (important to be see light gun) and can read VFR charts. You may ask you CFI to take you up for a night flight, having this experience before talking to FSDO will help. Can you distinguish taxiways from runways, military vs civilian airports, etc

[N201MKTurbo]

When I did my light gun test at Centennial Airport in Denver in 84, the FAA man was talking to the tower with a handheld. He would say into the handheld "show a red light" than look over at me and ask "what color was that one?" 

[RLCarter]

10 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I did my light gun test at Centennial Airport in Denver in 84, the FAA man was talking to the tower with a handheld. He would say into the handheld "show a red light" than look over at me and ask "what color was that one?" 

I'm sure you told him you were colorblind not deaf........

[Bolter]

@Capitalist  I have also failed the color blind test and had the night restriction, after flying unrestricted for 8 years.  I am going to PM you with my number.  Too much for here.  But some things to note:

• the SODA test has strings attached.  If you fail the daytime and then night time makeup option, you can never remove the limitation.  This is a big deal
• The easy pass SODA is harder to find since around 2010 when there was a crack down on color vision.  Anecdotes about easy tests may no longer apply.  As an example, I know someone who passed his through the mail.  That will not happen today.
• New BasicMed rules give you new options, according to some lawyers

[rbridges]

I have a neighbor who flew with the JSTARS in the USAF.  After 25+ years, he was diagnosed with red/green colorblindness.  We were both scratching our heads as to how it went that long without being noticed.  Maybe it was something that developed over time?

[Joe Zuffoletto]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I did my light gun test at Centennial Airport in Denver in 84, the FAA man was talking to the tower with a handheld. He would say into the handheld "show a red light" than look over at me and ask "what color was that one?" 

I took the light gun test at San Jose International Airport back in 1987, along with another subject. On many occasions we both gave different answers, but we both passed and got our SODAs.

Nevertheless, I don't trust my ability to fly under light control. About 15 years ago I was descending over the CA central valley and lost all electrical power in my Encore. I was on an instrument flight plan, heading to Napa in mid-afternoon in VFR conditions. Realizing that Napa tower would probably bust out the light gun for me, I radioed ATC before my battery died and explained my colorblindness situation. I requested a clearance to land at Napa from 90 miles out, and it was granted!

[N201MKTurbo]

I would be curious to know how many accidents are caused by color deficiency.

[ArtVandelay]

18 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I would be curious to know how many accidents are caused by color deficiency.

I found one, it occurred at night.

NTSB Identification: WPR13FA073

[Bolter]

18 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I would be curious to know how many accidents are caused by color deficiency.

According to the AME who failed me for colorblind the first time, there was a finding that the co-pilot's color vision was a secondary cause in a FedEx accident in 2002.  I find the accident review and the change in emphasis on color vision to be a purely bureaucratic response, and that renewed enforcement on an old reg is a dirty way to run things.  The logic is faulty for IFR pilots especially.  How can I fly in zero vis under IFR during the day, but not at night?  At 200 AGL, I would not see the beacon or light guns until I saw the runway environment anyway.  Especially with modern redundant equipment including handheld radio, and cell phone?  As a final injustice, a side effect of my type of color vision is enhanced night vision.  I just cannot tell the pale green from soft white of most beacons and light guns.  So I will always fail a real SODA.

• https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20020726-0  (2002 FedEx 727 incident)
• http://www.cvdpa.com/your-support/faq (Australian color blind pilots website)

The 2012 case (NTSB Identification: WPR13FA073) seems that color vision was a restriction on the pilot, making night flight illegal for him, but not a critical factor in the crash.  If I understood correctly, he had been flying for 100's of hours as a student pilot without a full certificate at all.  He flew with other pilots to be quasi-legal, I guess?

[Tommy]

There are many types of color blindness, some will stop you from flying such as severe red green - it pays to know exactly what you have before drawing any conclusion. It also pays to know how far are you planning to go with your aviation career. Surprisingly FAA is more lenient if you are only operating in a multi-crew environment. 

 

 

[Tommy]

8 hours ago, rbridges said:

I have a neighbor who flew with the JSTARS in the USAF.  After 25+ years, he was diagnosed with red/green colorblindness.  We were both scratching our heads as to how it went that long without being noticed.  Maybe it was something that developed over time?

Unlikely. It's a genetic thing. Maybe he was never being tested properly? There are types of red/gree color blindness in which the brightness is different even though the hue is the same. People can learn to adapt to that and never have any issues. 

[N201MKTurbo]

35 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Unlikely. It's a genetic thing. Maybe he was never being tested properly? There are types of red/gree color blindness in which the brightness is different even though the hue is the same. People can learn to adapt to that and never have any issues. 

That is exactly what I have. Red looks red and green looks green. 

Red and Green are not bright colors to me. 

It amazes me how the world still uses red for bad and green for good when those are dull colors to a significant minority of the population. 

I was at a Microsoft Developers Conference about ten years ago and attended a session on writing software for the disabled. She had a form on the screen where the text would turn green if it was correct and turn red if it was bad. I stood up and suggested that she should consider using different colors or some way that didn't rely on colors to indicate the state because 20% of males have a disability that makes the color change difficult to detect. 

She essentially called me an idiot and told me to sit down. So much for political correctness in Silicon Valley..... 

[29-0363]

There's been a lot of controversy in Australia over CVD pilots, with our CASA being difficult and pedantic on the issue.  The rights of CVD pilots has  long been championed by Dr Arthur Pape with some success, but CASA keep pushing back.  http://www.cvdpa.com/about/dr-arthur-pape-s-story

My story:  At age 15 I was diagnosed as red/green colorblind during a pre-employment medical examination, which at that time in Australia it was a disqualifier from flying period.  20 years later the rules changed to allow daytime only flight carrying radio, and I failed both the confetti test and the Farnsworth lantern (light) test, and my student licence was endorsed accordingly.  Without going into endless detail, I eventually undertook the Farnsworth lantern test under controlled light conditions and told I had a practice run first, then the proper test.  The examiner stopped the test after the practice run because I got a 100% correct score and the restriction on my licence was lifted forthwith.  In my opinion the variability of my test outcomes was affected by the prevailing artificial and ambient light sources.

[Capitalist]

Interesting stories everyone. What do y'all think about shooting straight for the SODA with the FAA? I'm confident I'll pass  

If I fail in the day, I only lose daytime color control. I still can try at night and get the night flying/color control restriction lifted.

How bad is it to never have the ability to fly under color control? I can always carry a backup handheld radio to lessen the chances of that ever being an issue. 

My understanding is that color control is almost never used. 

[carusoam]

I have yet to see a light signal in 20 years of flying...

Two radios on the panel and a spare battery powered one will probably keep from needing to use one.

I have had one total loss of electrical power once.  Dead generator lead to a dying battery, was landing at an uncontrolled field.  Not a real issue in the end...

Hope that helps,

-a-

[kmyfm20s]

I did the test and passed. I actually got a written waiver which is better than a SODA. I don't know how I got it but I did. If you can tell the difference between red and green on a traffic light you will not have a problem but don't fool yourself if you can because of position. The night restriction I never understood because as a really color blind person myself I find it much easier to distinguish between them at night.

[kmyfm20s]

10 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That is exactly what I have. Red looks red and green looks green. 

Red and Green are not bright colors to me. 

It amazes me how the world still uses red for bad and green for good when those are dull colors to a significant minority of the population. 

I was at a Microsoft Developers Conference about ten years ago and attended a session on writing software for the disabled. She had a form on the screen where the text would turn green if it was correct and turn red if it was bad. I stood up and suggested that she should consider using different colors or some way that didn't rely on colors to indicate the state because 20% of males have a disability that makes the color change difficult to detect. 

She essentially called me an idiot and told me to sit down. So much for political correctness in Silicon Valley..... 

I have always felt the same way! Why didn't they make blue good and yellow bad. Everyone can tell the difference between those colors. 

[steingar]

On 8/10/2017 at 10:04 AM, rbridges said:

I have a neighbor who flew with the JSTARS in the USAF.  After 25+ years, he was diagnosed with red/green colorblindness.  We were both scratching our heads as to how it went that long without being noticed.  Maybe it was something that developed over time?

Someone did a bogus test.  Yes, color blindness is a genetic thing.  We sense light through the action of proteins called Opsins.  Each has a frequency profile, that his how well they receive light of a given frequency.  There is one opsin that detects white light, and several others with frequency maxima making them specialized for color vision.  Everyone has two copies of the white light opsin, but men only have one copy of the color opsins, as the genes that encode them lie on the X chromosome, and in guys there can be only one.  That's why a repeated test for color vision  makes utterly no sense, once you've demonstrated it you've got it.  If you loose it you have much, much bigger problems than seeing in color.

Total red/green colorblindness is due to disabling mutations in the Opsin.  One of my best friends is color blind, we used to switch his socks in college.  This form of color blindness is the most common mutation in humans, its frequency is on the order of one in eight me with one in 30 women being carriers (they are only rarely affected as they have two X chromosomes).  That's why women are thought to have better color vision, often times they do.

There are mutations in these opsins that aren't totally disabling though, they allow some function, i.e. some color discrimination. Hence color vision can be critically dependent on light conditions, these are incredibly common as well. That's what happened in the post I quoted.  Someone tested the airman in poor light conditions.  

[Brandontwalker]

I have color vision deficiencies and cannot pass the Ishihara card test. I take an alternative test using a Farnsworth lantern and have the night vision restriction lifted. My understanding is that the SODA is a one shot deal and I have avoided it for that reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bolter]

12 hours ago, Capitalist said:

Interesting stories everyone. What do y'all think about shooting straight for the SODA with the FAA? I'm confident I'll pass  

If I fail in the day, I only lose daytime color control. I still can try at night and get the night flying/color control restriction lifted.

How bad is it to never have the ability to fly under color control? I can always carry a backup handheld radio to lessen the chances of that ever being an issue. 

My understanding is that color control is almost never used. 

As a practical issue, color control probably never happens in real life.  I have asked people for years, and never heard of real case in the last 20 years. But the regulation still stands.  This is not the painful part of the restriction, the lack of night flight is.  

Having a backup radio on board does not remove the restriction, so any night flight means you are flying unlicensed.  Insurance will not cover any event that occurs.  Liability will be on you if someone gets hurt, or a plane is damaged, even if not night related.  

You must be able to distinguish red, green, and white lights.  As @Tommy says, it is important to know your color blind type. I am not red-green, I am deuteranopia.  Ironically, it is associated with better night vision.  In the night flight demo if you fail the light gun test, you must identify more than just the 3 light guns.  Practice the light guns many times before scheduling your test.  If you fail the test, you lose options, as the failure is permanent restriction.  If you fail daylight test, you cannot get a 1st or 2nd class medical in the future.  IF you fail night test, you are permanently restricted.  https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2012/january/01/answers-for-pilots-color-vision 

I recommend you see a color vision specialist.  Better if he has the Farnsworth Lantern that @Brandontwalker mentioned, as this is one of the few alternate tests that can be done by a doctor instead of the FAA, and will still be accepted by the FAA.  These are hard to find.  I know a doctor at Berkeley that has one in his office, if you are on the west coast.  Note that if you fail the FAA test, you cannot get the restriction removed later by passing the Farnsworth Lantern test later.  Do these in order.