Fuel Bladders

[Highflight]

How many gals of fuel do you sacrifice by inserting bladder tanks? Are they worth installing?

 

[OR75]

you don't need to sacrifice capacity anymore. The STC holder added 2 bladders a few years ago.

the weight and balance changes a bit.  

[jetdriven]

i dont think ours added any to empty weight but yes, 54 gallons takes an hour off range.  ours are 19 years old and no leaks yet.  So, no fuel tank repair bills, but everything is a tradeoff.  Upgrading to 64 gallons isnt worth the 7K it takes to do that.

[KSMooniac]

Bladders most certainly add to the empty weight...what you might check is if the plane records and W&B were ever updated according to the STC.  

[N601RX]

Our bladders are about 13 years old and recently begain to leak around the cork gaskets that are around the fuel sensors and inspection plates.  A new set of gaskets cost about $100 and fixed the problem.

[John Pleisse]

For the 64 gallon mod, O&N told me to plan on 52 lbs. I found that significant. I was inticed by how close they are to my home airport in MD. But the weight increase was too much.

[Piloto]

Quote: N4352H

For the 64 gallon mod, O&N told me to plan on 52 lbs. I found that significant. I was inticed by how close they are to my home airport in MD. But the weight increase was too much.

[231Pilot]

The concept is great, but for me, the weight is also too great.  My '82 J is still on the original sealant and so far no leaks.  When it happens (and eventually it will) I'll opt for a re-seal, probably the Wilmar process.  It seems to be worth the cost, and no weight increase.  I haven't priced bladders lately, but they used to be priced competitively with strip and re-seal.

Anyone done a current cost comparison?

[Parker_Woodruff]

Don Maxwell's shop is licensed for Willmar's process now, I believe.

[fantom]

Buy Don a drink and ask him which of the two he prefers. I think he said something about not wanting condoms in his wings ;-)

[GeorgePerry]

this thread screems for the "search" option.  this ground has all been plowed before...

[sleepingsquirrel]

Hey, let's change this thread to FULL BLADDERS

I'm going to stay in the au natureal camp, bladders are like Madras tips on a C150 ,........superfluous.

That is unless you paid for them!

[Hank]

Let's not go there again!! I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about the capacity and opening size of many different brand-name drinks, how to refill the once-empty beverage container in flight, and what to do with the bottle after landing . . . as well as how to not confuse it with the "good" bottle that is still being drunk from . . .

[LT4BIRD]

I dont get the bladder thing. The wet wing will go 30 years plus before any leaks. And when they do just get it sealed again. With only 64 gal on my "J" I will keep my wets.

[OR75]

Agreed.  if you can find a shop nearby that will do  reseal. 

[jetdriven]

MIne was sealed on the right side  4 times in the first 14 years of its life, and I suppose the owners got tired or paying 3-8K each time.  In our case, it was the only way to stop it from leaking, and it has been 19 years.  Some airplanes just leak.

[OR75]

Was those 4 patches or fixes or full strip and reseal ? 

My preferenece is for a full reseal in a shop that is nearby your homebase and that would offer a few years of guarantee  

[jetdriven]

The leaks were repaired. And repaired.  And repaired.   A full reseal is nearly the same cost as a 64 gallon bladder install, the only issue you are dealing with is 1.) no more leaks for good, and 2.) a loss of 39 lbs of useful load.    Ours came with them, and Im glad.

[KLRDMD]

Quote: jetdriven

A full reseal is nearly the same cost as a 64 gallon bladder install, the only issue you are dealing with is 1.) no more leaks for good . . .

[OR75]

Repairing leaks is possibly a lost cause. Once leaks start popping, a full reseal / bladders is on the near horizon.  I had a reseal done a couple of years ago. At that time bladders were a lot more more money than a strip and reasel.

[Theo]

Bladders can leak. Hopefully mine never will. But they aren't nearly as sensitive to operation on rough bumpy runways as wet wings - especially when the sealant gets old. But there is a safety issue that is seldom mentioned .... if you have to put her down off runway and bend a wing, you are more likely to spew fuel out with a bent wet wing than with a bladder. The wing can deform and split open at a seam, but with bladders the fuel can still be contained, giving you time to get out of harms way. But if a wet wing seam splits and gallons of fuel are released things can possibly turn out much worse.

 

I love my bladders, but I understand they may not be the best choice for everyone. I didn't care about the weight because I never put humans in the back of my C and never get near gross weight. I sealed the tanks on my first Mooney back in the 80s myself. I will never, ever do that again!

[fantom]

Quote: JimR

[scottfromiowa]

Jim,

How do the fuel level sendors work with the O&N conversion?  What is done to existing fuel senders?  Thanks for your reply.

[N601RX]

Quote: JimR

Don't count on no more leaks for good. Plenty of bladders leak. Wasn't there an AD on them a couple of years ago ?

The one time AD that you are referring to applied to Mooney bladder systems installed prior to February 1, 1998.  It involved adding anti-ice masts in front of the fuel tank vents.  It should have been a non issue for many years now. 

When properly installed, leaking bladders are rare, but are usually attributable to a loose clamp or a bad gasket on the fuel senders or fuel filler rings.  Chasing bladder leaks requires time but no special skills, unlike tank re-sealing, which seems to be somewhat of an art best left to the masters.  Of course, when bladders start to deteriate from age (after 20, or 30, or 40, or 50 years), they will need to be removed and sent out for overhaul, which can be done relatively inexpensively directly by one of several manufacturers throughout the country.

Funny how most everyone that has then loves them. 

Jim

    

[N601RX]

Quote: JimR

That's a good question, Scott.  I'm pretty sure that the original senders are retained.  I know that the gauges are, and everything is adjusted for accuracy.  My gauges were relatively accurate before the installation, and nothing changed thereafter. 

The cams on my OEM fuel caps were worn out and replacements were around $400 a piece.  My plane also didn't come with SS fuel filler rings, which, although mine weren't rusted would have cost an additional five or six hundred bucks to replace.  Since these parts are included in the bladder conversion, I also factored them into the value equation.

Jim