New Mooney Sales

[Aviator]

I am curious as to how new Acclaim and Ovation sales have been materializing, now that FAA certification has finally been received.

It would seem that there should have been some pent up demand for the new models.  That is if two doors was really the answer.

Hopefully they are selling.  Success of the factory is obviously on our best interest.

Any info out there?

[Jeff_S]

When I was at the factory a few weeks ago they had at least six airframes on the line nearing production finish and I was told they were all sold. They are practicing a much greater JIT manufacturing process so there weren't any models being built on spec. They didn't reveal any more about orders or bookings.

[Piloto]

As per FAA registry 3 of the M20V (double doors) has been manufactured but not sold.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/MMS_results.aspx?Mmstxt=5870252&Statetxt=TX&conVal=0&PageNo=1

But I would rather have the retractable window shades like on the airlines and the pilot relief tube than the extra door.

José

[gsengle]

The pilot cert branch is running 4 months behind, how slow do registrations show up?


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[steingar]

Were I in the market for that kind of transportation the Mooney would be high on my list.  That said, I think the number of Corvalis sold by Cessna can be count din the single digits.

[gsengle]

Were I in the market for that kind of transportation the Mooney would be high on my list.  That said, I think the number of Corvalis sold by Cessna can be count din the single digits.

Cessna can afford to dabble in the TTx. Mooney is basically a one product company. They better figure out how to market, fast...


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[gsxrpilot]

Does anyone agree that it's easier to get in and out of the Left seat, than the Right, in our Mooneys?

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

Does anyone agree that it's easier to get in and out of the Left seat, than the Right, in our Mooneys?

I agree that getting into the right seat is a little harder but a left door would make it possible to exit without the copilot moving. And in a crash the left side might be the only option or the quickest path away from a fire.

[gsxrpilot]

I agree that in a crash, more exits are better. But I'm pretty sure that I could just as easily exit the right door from the left seat even if the right seat occupant was deceased. And if they're not deceased and just incapacitated, I'm definitely going out the right door and dragging them out with me.

Anyway, I know it doesn't apply to non-Mooney pilots who don't know any better, but spending all the time/money/effort just to get the left door seems like a waste and poor ROI to me.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I'm sure that adding the second door had a marketing aspect to it, but it also made possible the center console with the FMS keypad, which I think is a big plus. However, I would have preferred that they stuck with one door and had a fold-down keypad, like the Eclipse jet. Like others have mentioned, I find it much easier to climb out of the left seat than the right seat of my TN. Another aspect is drafts and wind noise. I'd prefer they be on the other side of the cabin.

[steingar]

I'm hoping that Mooney's slowly shed their aluminum skin and become carbon fiber aircraft.  The cabin would be the first step.  

[gsengle]

I'm hoping that Mooney's slowly shed their aluminum skin and become carbon fiber aircraft.  The cabin would be the first step.  

What disappoints me is that they didn't use this as an opportunity to add a little width to the cabin. The Cirrus cabin sells. And a couple of inches done well might not have impacted speed much at all. Composites allow nice shapes.


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[Jeff_S]

I'm not a huge guy, but at 6'2" and 44" shoulders I'm above average.  I have never once felt any sort of shoulder constraint or need for more room in the Ovation. So from a design perspective, I'm sure the goal was to keep the overall dimensions as close to original as possible and focus on the time and cost savings of the composite shell compared to sheet metal.  Also, a wider cabin would create more drag, right, and aren't Mooney's supposed to be the most efficient?

Regarding the second door, I do feel this was driven as much by marketing as anything. Those of us who've been flying for awhile may not care about it, but I can tell you my wife would enjoy being able to get in and out without worrying about me, and a second door makes it easy to put more stuff (e.g. our dog Rocket) in the back seat, etc. I think it was a necessary move to try to sell more airplanes. And with the composite construction they could do it without a weight penalty and also take the opportunity to increase the length and height of the doors to make them all more accessible. I've gotten in and out of the left side of an Ultra and it isn't difficult at all.

[KSMooniac]

It was a relatively easy change for Mooney since the exterior cabin skin/doors are not really structural, so the cert requirements are much less rigorous. Widening the cabin would trigger steel cage changes, and a lot more work IMO from the structural analysis standpoint, and perhaps some performance flight testing and AFM changes due to the extra drag from a wider cabin.

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[gsengle]

It was a relatively easy change for Mooney since the exterior cabin skin/doors are not really structural, so the cert requirements are much less rigorous. Widening the cabin would trigger steel cage changes, and a lot more work IMO from the structural analysis standpoint, and perhaps some performance flight testing and AFM changes due to the extra drag from a wider cabin.

 

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Oh I agree that it would have been harder. But it's the #1 dig on Mooney frankly is that its tight. I'm 44 chest and 511 and would love a couple more inches in my Ovation.

 

 

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[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I absolutely agree, Paul.  At 6'4" it is very difficult for me to get out of the copilot's seat in my Mooney.

Jim

A tip to getting in here Jim,

Left hand on the center tube above the compass, Right foot in the foot well, Right hand on the hand grab by the door frame, swing butt in and sit down.

Getting out, well, your on your own.

[N6758N]

56 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

What disappoints me is that they didn't use this as an opportunity to add a little width to the cabin. The Cirrus cabin sells. And a couple of inches done well might not have impacted speed much at all. Composites allow nice shapes.


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Let's be honest though, the Cirrus sells because it has a chute, a ,modern clean sheet design, and a marketing team that knows how to sell airplanes. I think cabin width is the not a huge seller for them. I am personally more comfortable in my mooney width wise than a Bonanza, but yes a Cirrus is wider.

[KSMooniac]

I'd love a wider cabin too, but the #1 thing a new Mooney needs is useful load...thru some combo of weight reduction and/or gross weight increase. My hope is that the next evolution might finally accomplish that, perhaps in conjunction with more cabin width. We all know the wing strength is legendary, but I'm starting to wish that instead of 12+ G strength maybe they could reduce weight since 10 G's would be more than ample... I suspect there is a lot of airframe weight that could be optimized/removed. Once a big change like that is started, it would make a lot of sense to widen the cabin.

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[Cyril Gibb]

I think the certification standard for our Mooneys is 61 knots stall speed.  The ultra has a stall speed of 56 knots.  What would the stall speed of the Ultra be if the gross was increased 100 or 200 lbs?  Are there other structural issues that a gross weight increase would incur?  Would it be possible to have a few hundred pounds difference in takeoff vs landing weight to avoid adding strength to the gear?

[rpcc]

Hope they sell lots of copies.

[KSMooniac]

I suspect the gear is at the absolute limit for meeting cert requirements at the max landing weight of 3200 lbs. To increase that likely means a gear re-design, such as an oleo arrangement of some sort and there isn't a lot of space in the current arrangement to squeeze one in easily.

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[Txbyker]

Much easier now right or left.  Door now wider to help solve the entry/exit issue.  I am 6'2" and if felt easier at least in this prototype.  

Russ

[1964-M20E]

2 larger doors definitely a good thing for entry and exit.  Two extra inches wider in the cabin would be a big plus.  Increased gross weight very desirable.

I'm not an aeronautical engineer so there is a good possibility I do not know what I am talking about and I'm sure I do not have any revolutionary or earth shattering observations here.

Keep the wing spar we currently have and the same basic air foil design.  Lengthen the chord of the wing by 8" at the root and 6" at the wing tips (dynamic lift thinking camp).  This would give you more surface area for greater loading (maybe 3600 or 3700lbs) and should allow you to keep the stall speed in a manageable area.  Put a 300HP TN LYC or Cont out front and fuel for a solid 6 hours of flying (W/O reserve or 4.5 to 5.5 hours with reserve depending on personal minimums) at 10,000.

The M22 already utilized an oleo strut design. Could you design an oleo strut to fit in the current wheel wells of the Mooney?  Maybe move the pivot point outboard 6" for the added extension of the strut when not compressed by the weight of the plane.

 

Take the current M20 deign with 2 doors shorten it back to the J length lighten it up wherever you can and put the LYC IO360, 200HP, TN engine out front for those of us who are happy with a basic complex 4 seat single.

Oh and utilize the 3D printing techniques, combined factory resources of the different airplane manufactures as mentioned in another thread to reduce the manufacturing costs.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

[StinkBug]

Until I actually got into the new Acclaim Ultra at OSH last year I had the same thoughts about getting in and out. They not only made the door longer, but it also wraps farther up the roof than the old planes. This makes it much easier to get in and out.