New hangers wish list

[jezzie]

Hi Everyone,

I am in the planning process of building a hanger complex west of Edmonton at Villeneuve CZVL, see hanger perspectives below. For those who have the experience owning hangers good or bad I would appreciate some feedback regarding style of hanger and ownership. The site was designed originally for t-hangers, I liked rectangular hangers better as they seemed to provide highest and best use. The 2 end spaces are 75' x 86' which will allow for a Rotating Aircraft Carrier (RAC) for up to 5 or 6 aircraft. The 8 individual hangers in the middle will be 42' x 43' with ceiling hieght of 18'. Bifold doors will be 14 ft high. Because of lot size constraints I may have to cut the size of 2 of the hangers down a bit to allow for those who have homebuilts. The beauty of the RAC "Rotating Aircraft Carrier" is it eliminates the risk of hanger rash and having to move someone else's airplane to get yours out. These hangers would be sold assuming cost of approx $90 to $100 per sq. ft. which includes R20 insulation.

1. What is a reasonable minimum size hanger in your opinion.

2. If a central compressed air system was provided would that be important.

3. Would you share a hanger with one or two other planes to cut down costs.

4. For extra price would office space or mezzanine storage be important.

5. What is the approximate average cost to purchase hangers in your area.

6. I am talking with 2 fabricators, the one I like the best so far is R & M Steel Cladwell Idaho, does anyone know of any other reputable steel fabricators.

I'm looking at aircraft lifts also hense the 18' ceiling hieghts, I need to be as efficient as possible with this space as the lease cost is very high, the airports are controlled by a central airport authority and the lease cost's are set.

My real motivation is to get the Mooney population increased in the Metro Edmonton area and have  everyone of you fly here so I can cook you that $100 hamburger.

If you wish you can email me or PM

Thanks in advance

Eldon

 

[flight2000]

Hi Eldon,

Below are my responses to your hangar questions.

1. What is a reasonable minimum size hanger in your opinion.

45' is the minimum for me personally.  I'm currently in a 40' open t-hangar and it scares the crap out of me every time I go to put the aircraft away.  The extra couple of feet on each side would do a lot for my sanity.

2. If a central compressed air system was provided would that be important?

Yes, that would be an excellent addition.  Use of power tools and a way to air tires, etc would be awesome, but it is a nice to have item only.

3. Would you share a hanger with one or two other planes to cut down costs?

No.  I prefer my own space with limited access, but that's just me.

4. For extra price would office space or mezzanine storage be important?

No, but a nice set of open or closed storage racks would be a good addition.  Also, since your starting with a clean slate, wiring the individual hangars for Internet and phone lines would be awesome.  Owners could then put in a desk and have a place for last minute flight planning, etc.

5. What is the approximate average cost to purchase hangers in your area?

No idea, but I've seen hangars rent for $375 a month or more in my area.  These are brand new, fully insulated hangars with electricity and heat as required (occupant pays the power bills).

6. I am talking with 2 fabricators, the one I like the best so far is R & M Steel Cladwell Idaho, does anyone know of any other reputable steel fabricators?

Nope, can't help you there either.  I'm assuming your looking for companies that are not doing prefab hangars.

Overall, I like your concept and sketches.

Brian

[Piloto]

+1 for Brian suggestions. I had a T-hangar here at KFXE for 25 years and found it very useful. I would definitely go for individual hangars rather than multiple plane hangars. They are easier to rent and nobody likes to pull other planes to get yours out. Electricity is a most with at least 20 amp capability, so a small air compressor, heater, refrigerator and power tools can be connected. Good fluorescent lights is a most for parking the plane at night. Central compressed air is nice but most owners here at FXE have their own portable compressors. Bathrooms nearby is a must unless you don't mind guys just doing it out on the grass behind the parked cars. A couple of outside dining tables, chairs and benches facing the runway is nice to have so owners can socialize. With todays fuel prices thats what you end up doing more.

José

  

[DaV8or]

I think you have to identify who your likely buyers are first. Your smaller units selling at $180,000 would most likely scare off most Mooney pilots! Given the high lease rates, I would be looking at ways to make the construction prices much lower so that the buyer can better afford the monthly payments.

1. What is a reasonable minimum size hanger in your opinion.

Your size seems about right.

2. If a central compressed air system was provided would that be important.

Skip it. Who owns it? Who maintains it? Who fixes it. Lower cost is important.

3. Would you share a hanger with one or two other planes to cut down costs.

No. Anybody buying their own hangar will want it all to themselves I would think.

4. For extra price would office space or mezzanine storage be important.

Not to me. Again, for the average GA guy, cost is everything. Offices and mezzanines are more for businesses and people with loads of money

All they really need is electric, lights and internet would be really nice. I would skip the tall roofs if it lowers the cost too. Manual doors too if it brings the cost way down.

Just my cheap guy two cents.

[jezzie]

Quote: DaV8or

I think you have to identify who your likely buyers are first. Your smaller units selling at $180,000 would most likely scare off most Mooney pilots! Given the high lease rates, I would be looking at ways to make the construction prices much lower so that the buyer can better afford the monthly payments.

1. What is a reasonable minimum size hanger in your opinion.

Your size seems about right.

2. If a central compressed air system was provided would that be important.

Skip it. Who owns it? Who maintains it? Who fixes it. Lower cost is important.

3. Would you share a hanger with one or two other planes to cut down costs.

No. Anybody buying their own hangar will want it all to themselves I would think.

4. For extra price would office space or mezzanine storage be important.

Not to me. Again, for the average GA guy, cost is everything. Offices and mezzanines are more for businesses and people with loads of money

All they really need is electric, lights and internet would be really nice. I would skip the tall roofs if it lowers the cost too. Manual doors too if it brings the cost way down.

Just my cheap guy two cents.

[OR75]

Agreed with previous comments:  Light and electricity is a must and forget the compressor.

An item I wish I had in my hangar would be a hook  in the ground (to tie down the plane tail for gear recycle test for example)  

Understand it would  vary from plane to plane but may be a few along the centerline would be great.

[Bob]

Quote: OR75

An item I wish I had in my hangar would be a hook  in the ground (to tie down the plane tail for gear recycle test for example)  

That is a fantastic idea!  The best part is, the cost would be almost nothing, basically the cost of parts.  Just ask the concrete guys to set the hooks during the pour.   Nice!

[Magnum]

Quote: Bob

[KSMooniac]

Great suggestions so far, and my sentiments are pretty much the same as everyone above.  I'm in a crappy city-owned T-hangar with sliding metals doors that don't seal, but it keeps the hail and sun off of my plane so I'm as happy as can be, all things considered.  They are quite cheap, too.  I would want to ensure that your new hangars are completely sealed and bird-proof since that is my biggest nuisance.

Power and overhead lights would be fantastic, as well as a utility sink and perhaps even a floor drain for plane-washing in the hangar.  If your version of the EPA is anything close to ours, that might be difficult.  Airports down here had to remove water access many years ago thanks the eco-nazis fearing ground water contamination by washing a plane.  (which is no different than washing a car at home in the driveway).  You might have to install some sort of trap in the drain, but it would be really nice to have water in the hangar!  

I also agree about skipping the central compressor and just provide enough AC to handle a portable compressor.  Nobody should need a big enough compressor to run air-sanders or rivet guns continuously so a portable should suffice for most folks IMO.

 I wouldn't want office space or other "finished" space in my hangar, but would love to have some built-in shelves, cabinets and workbenches along the back wall.  Perhaps you can have a modular slat system over a portion of each wall and then let the owners buy/lease some of these extras to install in each hangar to suit their own needs.

You also might consider a community access room or crib so that some common items might be secured with shared access amongst the residents.  I'm thinking of things like plane jacks, cherry pickers, engine stands, etc.  Perhaps a motorized tug could be kept there too.  Something like that could help entice some customers...

[mooniac58]

I just bought a t-hangar in Santa Fe, NM (KSAF).  They were $55,000 each - a special offer for those that deposited before the project was complete.  Now I think they are $62,000.  They are 42' wide...they just have manual sliding doors and electricity only.  No water, gas, internet and no restroom nearby - you have to drive 1/4 mile to the FBO to take a leak is probably the biggest negative.  They also have no insulation so I will likely be investing a bit more to insulate it as it really gets cold/hot here.

I am pretty happy overall though.  My hangar in Hawaii was an overpriced government junker.  It is nice to have a brand new hangar, I just completed adding an epoxy floor and things are looking pretty good.  I just wish my plane was ready to park in it!

I actually bought one and a half t-hangars (At the end of the building) and I will build out a 20' x 15' room in most of that space, either for a Redbird FMX simulator or my office away from home - and then I will store some motorcycles in the remaining space. 

[Piloto]

Quote: mooniac58

I just bought a t-hangar in Santa Fe, NM (KSAF).  They were $55,000 each - a special offer for those that deposited before the project was complete.  Now I think they are $62,000.  They are 42' wide...they just have manual sliding doors and electricity only.  No water, gas, internet and no restroom nearby - you have to drive 1/4 mile to the FBO to take a leak is probably the biggest negative.  They also have no insulation so I will likely be investing a bit more to insulate it as it really gets cold/hot here.

I am pretty happy overall though.  My hangar in Hawaii was an overpriced government junker.  It is nice to have a brand new hangar, I just completed adding an epoxy floor and things are looking pretty good.  I just wish my plane was ready to park in it!

I actually bought one and a half t-hangars (At the end of the building) and I will build out a 20' x 15' room in most of that space, either for a Redbird FMX simulator or my office away from home - and then I will store some motorcycles in the remaining space. 

[N33GG]

My number one wish would be for high quality bi-fold doors that work great.  My biggest complaint with all of the hangars I have rented at many airports for many years is lousy doors that are hard to open, not very secure, and prone to problems.  A few years ago when I had a J-Model in a municipal T-hangar, a wind storm took a set of doors off of the rails of an adjoining hangar, and hangar after hangar had the doors torn off in a domino like event.  Some of the hangar doors fell in on the aircraft being stored, and luckily my hangar doors fell out.  Good doors - #1 priority.

Next wish would be for a water tight building with no leaks, and no water running under the walls or doors every time it rains hard.

Electricity with plenty of lights and outlets is a must.

Office - no thanks.  But an enclosed storage area would be nice, with perhaps another secure door to the outside such that you could access the storage without dragging things around the aircraft, and risking hangar rash.

Bathroom to take a leak- not a priority.  I can work around that...er...uhm...no further comment here.

Width 45' minimum, with 50' preferable.  Mooneys have a wider wingspan than many small aircraft, but a 50' width would make a nice hanger more attractive to many twins in the event you needed to sell in the future.  Plenty of height is important for larger aircraft as well.  Looking forward to exit strategy here.

I actually have a deposit on a hangar lot at another airport where I will be building my first very own hangar (50X50), so this thread is timely and interesting.  After decades of frustration, and seeing the results when other people have cut corners, I will not be trying to save money when it comes to the doors!

[fantom]

This thread is making me wish (bucket list) I could build a solid hanger at my future airpark home....somewhere.

I hangreed my plane at FXE for many years, and then moved to smaller HWO. Rent at either place is now about $550/month. Bad doors, leaky roofs, no lights, electric that trips off under light loads, and the list goes on. Life in SoFL.

For the guys at least, we have buckets and trees ;-)

[KSMooniac]

On the subject of doors...check out Hydroswing, which are single-panel hydraulic doors instead of bi-fold doors.  Much better design IMO.

[N33GG]

Quote: KSMooniac

On the subject of doors...check out Hydroswing, which are single-panel hydraulic doors instead of bi-fold doors.  Much better design IMO.

[jezzie]

Quote: KSMooniac

On the subject of doors...check out Hydroswing, which are single-panel hydraulic doors instead of bi-fold doors.  Much better design IMO.

[jax88]

I have one simple wish to add to your list:  build them in San Antonio.

[jetdriven]

or houston.  Acres of airport and are vacant here, yet there is a 2 year waiting list for a 40' winsgpan sliding door, t-hangar, and its 450$/mo.  We are planning on tying our 201 down outside on the texas gulf coast, and in 2 and 1/2 years, we have saved enough to paint it. 

[jezzie]

Thanks everyone the feedback has been great, and I will be incorporating all suggestions into my overall marketing plan, the main intent is to make it easy for any potential purchasers to say yes, paying $150,000 for 1800 sq ft to store 2 airplanes in this market place is a high price. The only other thing I have added is minimal heat to maintain 40F when our winter nights go down to -20F.

Eldon