Interesting comment from a prepurchase inspection

[peevee]

It's too early to call so I haven't gotten clarification yet but:

 

"At this time, I do not see any huge issues, A couple of quick notes, under the back seat, the spar looks to be in good condition, as I noted, the aircraft shows its age a bit with some  minor surface corrosion, and evidence of repairs and touch up paint.  I did find the 337 for the repair of the lft wing.  I am not seeing specific references to work on other skins, but rivets and paint show that there has been work done"

 

Is it just me or is he telling me there is undocumented repair work to the wing skins? 

[Andy95W]

Maybe, but not all repairs need to be documented using a 337, only Major Repairs.  Minor repairs are a simple logbook entry by an A&P, so you or he would need to look through every single page of the airframe logbook to make that determination.

Also, some repair stations can simply reference a work order, so the logbook entry could just say, "Minor skin damage repaired.  See WO#12345."

[peevee]

19 minutes ago, N1395W said:

Maybe, but not all repairs need to be documented using a 337, only Major Repairs.  Minor repairs are a simple logbook entry by an A&P, so you or he would need to look through every single page of the airframe logbook to make that determination.

Also, some repair stations can simply reference a work order, so the logbook entry could just say, "Minor skin damage repaired.  See WO#12345."

There's no logbook entry is what I think he is saying.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Even a log entry can be terse to the point of uselessness.

My former T210's books had my lifetime favorite -- a handwritten smudged log entry reading in its entirety, "Replaced left wing with serviceable unit."  

"Complete Logs" is a subjective claim at best.

Good hunting!

 

 

[neilpilot]

1 hour ago, N1395W said:

Maybe, but not all repairs need to be documented using a 337, only Major Repairs.  Minor repairs are a simple logbook entry by an A&P, so you or he would need to look through every single page of the airframe logbook to make that determination.

Also, some repair stations can simply reference a work order, so the logbook entry could just say, "Minor skin damage repaired.  See WO#12345."

But OP's inspector states that "I did find the 337 for the repair of the lft wing"

[Zwaustin]

He is telling you the condition of the rivets and paint makes it look like other work was done unrelated to the 337 repair?

[peevee]

1 hour ago, Zwaustin said:

He is telling you the condition of the rivets and paint makes it look like other work was done unrelated to the 337 repair?

I beleive that is what he is saying. I see log entries referencing a 337 for repairs to the wing bottoms, which sounds like it slipped off some jacks, but I see nothing about top surface, which he seems to indicate also. 

 

It's enough to make me want to walk away, maybe I'm overreacting . 

[thinwing]

4 hours ago, peevee said:

It's too early to call so I haven't gotten clarification yet but:

 

"At this time, I do not see any huge issues, A couple of quick notes, under the back seat, the spar looks to be in good condition, as I noted, the aircraft shows its age a bit with some  minor surface corrosion, and evidence of repairs and touch up paint.  I did find the 337 for the repair of the lft wing.  I am not seeing specific references to work on other skins, but rivets and paint show that there has been work done"

 

Is it just me or is he telling me there is undocumented repair work to the wing skins? 

Why is it enough to walk away?Your mechanics first sentence says it all.I note he does not comment negatively on quality of repairs so I assume are good.How old is this Mooney...over 30/40 years...

[peevee]

Just now, thinwing said:

Why is it enough to walk away?Your mechanics first sentence says it all.I note he does not comment negatively on quality of repairs so I assume are good.How old is this Mooney...over 30/40 years...

1980

 

the fact that we don't know who did it or when the work was done is what bothers me. the plan was to dump a bunch of money into the panel and make the plane what we want, but if we're polishing a turd it's probably a bad idea.

Edited November 9, 2016 by peevee

[thinwing]

Ok maybe call him and ask him how extensive sheet metal looks to be...more important..he doesn't mention examining for spar corrosion visible from aft wheel well...forget looking under rear seat...look up topguns website (msc Stockton calif) for a wing spar replacement.

[Yetti]

the 337 will have who did it.  Order the CD for the plane from the FAA and it will have all 337 filed for the plane.

[peevee]

Just now, Yetti said:

the 337 will have who did it.  Order the CD for the plane from the FAA and it will have all 337 filed for the plane.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well. 

 

There is an area of repair with a 337. We have that. 

 

There is a separate area with no documentation whatsoever. No log entry. No 337. 

 

 

I'm probably going to walk away anyhow. No point in continuing this thread. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by peevee

[KSMooniac]

Sounds like you won't be convinced it is ok, so best to walk. Just understand that finding completely pristine 30-40 year old planes gets more difficult every year. If the rest of the plane meets your other criteria, you could use the undocumented repair for a price concession, but only if you're sure it is done correctly. Your mechanic could make a log entry about it after purchase to clear up any future confusion too. There is a slim chance it might be on a missing 337 so ordering the CD is a good idea.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[peevee]

Just now, KSMooniac said:

Sounds like you won't be convinced it is ok, so best to walk. Just understand that finding completely pristine 30-40 year old planes gets more difficult every year. If the rest of the plane meets your other criteria, you could use the undocumented repair for a price concession, but only if you're sure it is done correctly. Your mechanic could make a log entry about it after purchase to clear up any future confusion too. There is a slim chance it might be on a missing 337 so ordering the CD is a good idea.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
 

It's kind of an overall thing and this is the last straw I think. 

 

Small amounts if surface corrosion 

Poor paint adhesion and trouble areas

Stuff like that. It just doesn't feel right. 

[thinwing]

6 hours ago, peevee said:

It's kind of an overall thing and this is the last straw I think. 

 

Small amounts if surface corrosion 

Poor paint adhesion and trouble areas

Stuff like that. It just doesn't feel right. 

Sounds like you will only be happy with a 2017 acclaim...good luck in your search

[peevee]

12 minutes ago, thinwing said:

Sounds like you will only be happy with a 2017 acclaim...good luck in your search

I want to upgrade, not downgrade. That's all. 

[glafaille]

Pass on this one.  If it's not obviously "the plane" then it isn't.

Hold out for the right plane and be prepared to pay whatever the seller asks for it when you find it.  Nice planes with near perfect logs are out there and do come up for sale, but you have to act without hesitation.  Your search could easily take 6 months to a year.  It's a process that some enjoy and others do not.  Personally, I didn't care for it.

[Guest Mike261]

On 11/9/2016 at 8:05 AM, peevee said:

It's too early to call so I haven't gotten clarification yet but:

 

"At this time, I do not see any huge issues, A couple of quick notes, under the back seat, the spar looks to be in good condition, as I noted, the aircraft shows its age a bit with some  minor surface corrosion, and evidence of repairs and touch up paint.  I did find the 337 for the repair of the lft wing.  I am not seeing specific references to work on other skins, but rivets and paint show that there has been work done"

 

Is it just me or is he telling me there is undocumented repair work to the wing skins? 

The problem is the sentence construction...you need clarification.

Did he mean to say this:

At this time, I do not see any huge issues, A couple of quick notes, under the back seat, the spar looks to be in good condition, as I noted, the aircraft shows its age a bit with some  minor surface corrosion, and evidence of repairs and touch up paint.  I did find the 337 for the repair of the lft wing.  I am not seeing specific references to work on other skins, but rivets and paint show that there has been work done on other skins not included in the 337"

 

or this:

At this time, I do not see any huge issues, A couple of quick notes, under the back seat, the spar looks to be in good condition, as I noted, the aircraft shows its age a bit with some  minor surface corrosion, and evidence of repairs and touch up paint.  I did find the 337 for the repair of the lft wing.  I am not seeing specific references to work on other skins, but rivets and paint show that there has been work done on the left wing.

 

Mike

 

[peevee]

10 hours ago, glafaille said:

Pass on this one.  If it's not obviously "the plane" then it isn't.

Hold out for the right plane and be prepared to pay whatever the seller asks for it when you find it.  Nice planes with near perfect logs are out there and do come up for sale, but you have to act without hesitation.  Your search could easily take 6 months to a year.  It's a process that some enjoy and others do not.  Personally, I didn't care for it.

I don't care for it either, I think it sucks.

after some more discussion, he pretty much said it's not the belle of the ball, but it's not junk either. Well, we're not paying belle of the ball pricing, so I think we'll go ahead and close.