A fair sized smidgin of bad luck

[N601RX]

Wheel bearing substitution with non Pma parts is legally permitted under AC 23-27 with a logbook entry. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I had to replace my nose wheel,bearings 4-5 years ago. They cost almost TEN TIMES the automotive Timken parts . . .

Ah, still under 0.1 AMU each.  That's down "In the noise" as we comm engineers say. 

The plane DOES roll and brake far better....not due to the new bearings, but because we found someone had installed one outer brake pressure plate backwards...the linings were literally untouched; the rotor disc was toast.  

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

33 minutes ago, N601RX said:

Wheel bearing substitution with non Pma parts is legally permitted under AC 23-27 with a logbook entry. 

Well, nice try.

AC 23-27 covers VINTAGE aircraft for which parts are otherwise unavailable.  

I can't see even a CB claiming a 2000 Ovation is "out of production."

[jetdriven]

Just now, Jerry 5TJ said:

Well, nice try.

AC 23-27 covers VINTAGE aircraft for which parts are otherwise unavailable.  

I can't see even a CB claiming a 2000 Ovation is "out of production."

Read the AC.  A brand new Ovation qualifies since it was type-certificated before 1980. 

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_23-27.pdf

 

 

 

[N601RX]

AC 23-27 defines vintage as one with a type cert before 1980. It then states that newer derivatives of the airframe included on the same type cert is also covered.  Who is to say they were not temporary unavailable when they were changed out 4 or 5 years ago? Was Mooney in production with any airframe 5 years ago?

It also doesn't say they have to be unavailable, just "difficult to find."  

[Guest]

Another interesting read.  As the wheel part number is laid out in the TC, does it not come down to what Cleveland specified in their own parts catalog and maintenance manual for the wheel?

Clarence

[Jerry 5TJ]

Ok, interesting discussion.

However, the correct parts are available.  It took about two minutes to find them online.  Hard to see how that could be construed as "hard to find."   

Also the IA said, "they're illegal."  He signs the logs.  I could go elsewhere but his experience and judgement seem excellent to me.   

We're talking about $35 parts here.  Pretty cheap to use the right ones.    

Good to know that we can substitute parts if essential, and or use "owner produced" parts to repair unavailable components.  

[Yetti]

Manual says wheel bearing grease of Aeroshell 22  or SHC 100  mil spec 81322   So Aeroshell 6 which is a mil spec 24139a would not be an approved grease for Wheel bearing per the AWBGT0001 manual.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Just now, Yetti said:

Manual says wheel bearing grease of Aeroshell 22  or SHC 100  mil spec 81322   So Aeroshell 6 which is a mil spec 24139a would not be an approved grease for Wheel bearing per the AWBGT0001 manual.

Will look it up and call the IA, thanks

[MB65E]

I'd ask for my wheel bearings back too. Lol.

-Matt

[Yetti]

I am surprised the plane has not fallen out of the sky running PMA bearings and non airworthy grease.  Was under the impression that Aeroshell 6 was fine for bearings too because that is what looked like was in mine.   I generally would not agree since it seems too thin but we do lots of things by what we heard/based on the last guy who worked on it.  I am only a year or so into this ownership game.  lots to learn. Older Fords trucks had a tendency to eat brake rotors so I have replaced a lot of bearings and rotors.  Even on my bike crank bearings, the Shimano grease looks too thin so I pack them full of High temp disc brake grease from wally world.

[cnoe]

10 hours ago, Yetti said:

Manual says wheel bearing grease of Aeroshell 22  or SHC 100  mil spec 81322   So Aeroshell 6 which is a mil spec 24139a would not be an approved grease for Wheel bearing per the AWBGT0001 manual.

My J's Mooney Service Manual specifies a MIL-L-3545 (High Temperature) grease for the wheel bearings which is satisfied by the use of AeroShell 5. Aeroshell 6 on the other hand is an appropriate airframe grease in some applications.

While AeroShell 22 appears to be an excellent wheel bearing grease it's not what's specified for my J. I doubt anyone would care if you used it though.

 

Here are the specs for AS-5 directly from Shell:

AeroShell Grease 5 is particularly effective for use as a wheel bearing grease, especially when landing speeds are high, and is suitable for the lubrication of aircraft and engine accessories operating at high speeds and at relatively high temperatures, e.g. magnetos, generators and starters. For the lubrication of rolling bearings which are required to start at temperatures as low as –23°C an adequate period should be allowed for the grease to channel. SPECIFICATIONS PROPERTIES MIL-G-3545C TYPICAL Oil type - Mineral Thickener type - Microgel Base oil viscosity mm²/s @ 40°C - 500 to 525 @ 100°C - 32 Useful operating temperature range °C - –23°C to +177 Drop point °C 177 min 260+ Worked penetration @ 25°C 250 to 300 284 Unworked penetration @ 25°C - 281 Bomb oxidation pressure drop @ 99°C 100 hrs lb/in² 10 max 6 500 hrs lb/in² 25 max 15 Oil separation @ 100°C, in 30 hrs %m 5 max 0.5 Water resistance test loss @ 41°C %m 20 max 0.5 Evaporation loss in 22 hrs @ 149°C %m - 1.0 Mean Hertz Load kg - 37 Copper corrosion 24 hrs @ 100°C Must pass Passes Bearing protection 2 days @ 51°C Must pass Passes Anti-friction bearing performance @ 149°C hrs - 600+ Colour - Amber AEROSHELL GREASE 5 U.S. Meets MIL-G-3545C (Obsolete)

[Yetti]

Best I can see my S&M manual is silent on the grease type for wheel bearings #106.    So back in the day I was at a Texaco grease packing plant doing a training video.  They mixed up grease in a big vat then started packing the tubes.   The first tubes had Texaco on the label.  The next tubes had the wal mart branding

[jetdriven]

16 hours ago, N601RX said:

AC 23-27 defines vintage as one with a type cert before 1980. It then states that newer derivatives of the airframe included on the same type cert is also covered.  Who is to say they were not temporary unavailable when they were changed out 4 or 5 years ago? Was Mooney in production with any airframe 5 years ago?

It also doesn't say they have to be unavailable, just "difficult to find."  

Read that AC again, it says a substitution of parts is covered by the AC for aircraft type certificated before 1980 in which parts may be difficult or impossible to find.. I think in this case it means that the the aircraft category in which parts are difficult or impossible to find not the Specific part under consideration must be hard to find. 

IE to qualify under the AC the aircraft must be Type certificated before 1980 or less than 12,500 pounds etc. and difficult to find part is not a criteria for parts substitution under the AC

Edited July 21, 2016 by jetdriven

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Read that AC again, it says a substitution of parts is covered by the AC for aircraft type certificated before 1980 in which parts may be difficult or impossible to find.. I think in this case it means that the the aircraft category in which parts are difficult or impossible to find not the Specific part under consideration must be hard to find. 

IE to qualify under the AC the aircraft must be Type certificated before 1980 or less than 12,500 pounds etc. and difficult to find part is not a criteria for parts substitution under the AC

So if I can't find a part for my Type Certificated before 1980 aircraft that weighs less than 12,500 lbs [i.e., my 1970 Mooney], then I'm just SOL? That is certainly not the intent of the regulation! Parking airplanes just because a part is difficult to find is what the regulation was designed to stop!

[jetdriven]

No, what I'm saying is if your airplane is a Mooney M20, you can substitute parts under AC23.27 regardless if how difficult or easy the part is to find.  That's not a criteria...

Edited July 21, 2016 by jetdriven

[Hank]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

No, what I'm saying is if your airplane is a Mooney M20, you can substitute parts under AC23.27 regardless if how difficult or easy the part is to find.  That's not a criteria...

Wonderful! That's not how I understood you above.

[bonal]

On the subject best possible good luck to have bad luck...huh, so been having trouble with the gear horn since annual and brought it in to jack it up and trouble shoot problem. So while its up thought I'd check tire pressure since they seemed a bit down visibly (turns out they were). And while airing up the left main the stem ripped and out comes the air. But let's see already on the jacks at the MSC with new tubes on the shelf. Turns out the horn switch on the throttle needed adjustment that's how the old ball bounces 

[Yetti]

If the tire pressure is low, the tube will spin inside the tire and rip the stem..... Next up the schrader valve is not designed to hold air pressure, it is the cap that must be installed to keep air from leaking out.  caps are important.

[Hector]

10 hours ago, Yetti said: Manual says wheel bearing grease of Aeroshell 22  or SHC 100  mil spec 81322   So Aeroshell 6 which is a mil spec 24139a would not be an approved grease for Wheel bearing per the AWBGT0001 manual.

My J's Mooney Service Manual specifies a MIL-L-3545 (High Temperature) grease for the wheel bearings which is satisfied by the use of AeroShell 5. Aeroshell 6 on the other hand is an appropriate airframe grease in some applications.

While AeroShell 22 appears to be an excellent wheel bearing grease it's not what's specified for my J. I doubt anyone would care if you used it though.

 

Here are the specs for AS-5 directly from Shell:

AeroShell Grease 5 is particularly effective for use as a wheel bearing grease, especially when landing speeds are high, and is suitable for the lubrication of aircraft and engine accessories operating at high speeds and at relatively high temperatures, e.g. magnetos, generators and starters. For the lubrication of rolling bearings which are required to start at temperatures as low as –23°C an adequate period should be allowed for the grease to channel. SPECIFICATIONS PROPERTIES MIL-G-3545C TYPICAL Oil type - Mineral Thickener type - Microgel Base oil viscosity mm²/s @ 40°C - 500 to 525 @ 100°C - 32 Useful operating temperature range °C - –23°C to +177 Drop point °C 177 min 260+ Worked penetration @ 25°C 250 to 300 284 Unworked penetration @ 25°C - 281 Bomb oxidation pressure drop @ 99°C 100 hrs lb/in² 10 max 6 500 hrs lb/in² 25 max 15 Oil separation @ 100°C, in 30 hrs %m 5 max 0.5 Water resistance test loss @ 41°C %m 20 max 0.5 Evaporation loss in 22 hrs @ 149°C %m - 1.0 Mean Hertz Load kg - 37 Copper corrosion 24 hrs @ 100°C Must pass Passes Bearing protection 2 days @ 51°C Must pass Passes Anti-friction bearing performance @ 149°C hrs - 600+ Colour - Amber AEROSHELL GREASE 5 U.S. Meets MIL-G-3545C (Obsolete)

Agree, AeroShell grease 5 is the correct grease for wheel bearings. After reading the specs and talking with my IA this is what I have used since I bought the airplane. I went through this effort years ago when I tried to put together a good list of consumables for my annual inspection.