Seriously considering selling my E to buy a J

[nels]

A lot of good points and I appreciate all of them. I think I do have a good dependable and presentable plane and it would make a great time builder or cross country plane for the right person. Fixing the auto pilot is not a bad idea and I may do that if I keep it. The J appeals to me mainly due to the additional length of the plane itself, probably a little more quiet and probably a little better ride for an air sick prone wife. I have son and daughter living in Denver and we live in Cincinnati, the E would probably do the trip with one stop but it might be tight depending on which way the wind blows. The J would typically have a more modern auto pilot and usually newer radios etc. I will probably end up selling the E to someone that wants an affordable entry level high performance aircraft at a fair market price and let them decide the updates they may or may not want. 

If anyone does want pictures send me a pm and I'll get them to you and I can give you my contact info etc. I'm not in a distressed situation but I'm interested in selling.

[nels]

Well, I've listed the Mooney on Barnstormers for $32000. That gives me a little wiggle room if necessary. With my first post I probably painted a dim  picture of the plane more so than it actually is but that is always better than having a prospective buyer show up and be disappointed. I forgot to mention the plane also has a EDM 700 engine monitor and a 201 windshield. Also, I mentioned the TSMOH as 1500 but log book entry mentions to consider it as less. To try to explain this, the lower end was overhauled and a hundred or so hours later the entire upper end was done. An overhaul occurred but not all at the same time but within a few hundred hours instead of all at once. I realize this doesn't really count but it should givea buyer a little breathing room on the engine condition.

[glafaille]

Nels-

With an engine situation such as yours, it's important to note the status of the items normally accomplished at overhaul.   Belts, hoses, engine mounts, fuel injection system, magnetos, starter and generator.  If all of those were done as well, then it's bit easier to ake your case.  If not, then it's a harder sell.

In addition, were the cylinders overhauled or replaced with new?  Makes a difference, especially with the angle valve engine as the cylinders are so expensive.

[Bob_Belville]

Nels, I'm going to guess that an early J with a panel not much newer than yours will cost you 30-40,000 more than you'll get for your E. 

• The leaking tank(s?) will be discounted about 10k based upon what a reseal costs these days.
• The 6200 TT will cost you value.
• The gear up, which should not be a factor, will be used by the buyer to negotiate.
• The engine likewise will cause the buyer to figure he needs to plan on a major overhaul before too long.
• The inop autopilot will turn off anyone who does not know that these "primitive" units are in fact pretty nice. (As has been suggested, this is the one item you should get fixed whether you keep or sell.)

Your OP does not ask for advice re sell or keep. You only asked what your E could reasonably sell for. In spite of that, several of us are tempted to inquire re you mission. How often do you have more than 2 souls on board? What's your typical mission? How far? Do you fly hard IFR? 

It seems to this admitted fan of the M20E that the M20J has only a couple of advantages: more rear seat leg room being the first one usually cited, and speed. The speed advantage is quite small if the E has had any of the mods that became available after the 201 came out. (My '66E cruises @ close to 160 ktas (over 180 mph tas). The rear seat leg room could be very important or or no concern depending upon how often it is actually used.

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Nels, I'm going to guess that an early J with a panel not much newer than yours will cost you 30-40,000 more than you'll get for your E. 

• The leaking tank(s?) will be discounted about 10k based upon what a reseal costs these days.
• The 6200 TT will cost you value.
• The gear up, which should not be a factor, will be used by the buyer to negotiate.
• The engine likewise will cause the buyer to figure he needs to plan on a major overhaul before too long.
• The inop autopilot will turn off anyone who does not know that these "primitive" units are in fact pretty nice. (As has been suggested, this is the one item you should get fixed whether you keep or sell.)

Your OP does not ask for advice re sell or keep. You only asked what your E could reasonably sell for. In spite of that, several of us are tempted to inquire re you mission. How often do you have more than 2 souls on board? What's your typical mission? How far? Do you fly hard IFR? 

It seems to this admitted fan of the M20E that the M20J has only a couple of advantages: more rear seat leg room being the first one usually cited, and speed. The speed advantage is quite small if the E has had any of the mods that became available after the 201 came out. (My '66E cruises @ close to 160 ktas (over 180 mph tas). The rear seat leg room could be very important or or no concern depending upon how often it is actually used.

I hit "quote" because I think Bob's comments are so on the nose they should be repeated.

[nels]

3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Nels, I'm going to guess that an early J with a panel not much newer than yours will cost you 30-40,000 more than you'll get for your E. 

• The leaking tank(s?) will be discounted about 10k based upon what a reseal costs these days.
• The 6200 TT will cost you value.
• The gear up, which should not be a factor, will be used by the buyer to negotiate.
• The engine likewise will cause the buyer to figure he needs to plan on a major overhaul before too long.
• The inop autopilot will turn off anyone who does not know that these "primitive" units are in fact pretty nice. (As has been suggested, this is the one item you should get fixed whether you keep or sell.)

Your OP does not ask for advice re sell or keep. You only asked what your E could reasonably sell for. In spite of that, several of us are tempted to inquire re you mission. How often do you have more than 2 souls on board? What's your typical mission? How far? Do you fly hard IFR? 

It seems to this admitted fan of the M20E that the M20J has only a couple of advantages: more rear seat leg room being the first one usually cited, and speed. The speed advantage is quite small if the E has had any of the mods that became available after the 201 came out. (My '66E cruises @ close to 160 ktas (over 180 mph tas). The rear seat leg room could be very important or or no concern depending upon how often it is actually used.

 

[nels]

4 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Nels, I'm going to guess that an early J with a panel not much newer than yours will cost you 30-40,000 more than you'll get for your E. 

• The leaking tank(s?) will be discounted about 10k based upon what a reseal costs these days.
• The 6200 TT will cost you value.
• The gear up, which should not be a factor, will be used by the buyer to negotiate.
• The engine likewise will cause the buyer to figure he needs to plan on a major overhaul before too long.
• The inop autopilot will turn off anyone who does not know that these "primitive" units are in fact pretty nice. (As has been suggested, this is the one item you should get fixed whether you keep or sell.)

Your OP does not ask for advice re sell or keep. You only asked what your E could reasonably sell for. In spite of that, several of us are tempted to inquire re you mission. How often do you have more than 2 souls on board? What's your typical mission? How far? Do you fly hard IFR? 

It seems to this admitted fan of the M20E that the M20J has only a couple of advantages: more rear seat leg room being the first one usually cited, and speed. The speed advantage is quite small if the E has had any of the mods that became available after the 201 came out. (My '66E cruises @ close to 160 ktas (over 180 mph tas). The rear seat leg room could be very important or or no concern depending upon how often it is actually used.

I'll try again. My comment gets erased before I post.

To try and answer some of the questions. I'm not IFR rated but may end up getting that rating just to be on the safe side. I am retired and don't plan on flying any distance unless the weather is good from home to destination. I have the time to take my time. My son and daughter live in Denver. In an E model it will take two stops to get there and one or two to get home to Cincinnati. In a. J, with the additional fuel capacity, it should make it with one stop in either direction. Also, my wife gets a little air sick mainly due to the tail wag affect of the E and the longer J may not be as pronounced. The other reason for the J is that this will likely be my last plane and I've always wanted one.

 

[Bob_Belville]

14 minutes ago, nels said:

I'll try again. My comment gets erased before I post.

To try and answer some of the questions. I'm not IFR rated but may end up getting that rating just to be on the safe side. I am retired and don't plan on flying any distance unless the weather is good from home to destination. I have the time to take my time. My son and daughter live in Denver. In an E model it will take two stops to get there and one or two to get home to Cincinnati. In a. J, with the additional fuel capacity, it should make it with one stop in either direction. Also, my wife gets a little air sick mainly due to the tail wag affect of the E and the longer J may not be as pronounced. The other reason for the J is that this will likely be my last plane and I've always wanted one.

 

Interesting. Have you flown your E to Denver yet? it looks like a direct, no wind, flight would be easy enough with one stop, in either a E or a J, even with reasonable head wind. It's 947 nm from KLUK to KAPA.  

Tail wag? That a new one to me. But I only have 2500 hours in Es. 

But, your final reason is all you need and it is completely valid. Go for it.

[nels]

The "tail wag" is my wife's description. Personally I never noticed it before she said something but she can notice or feel just about anything.

[Bob_Belville]

34 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

FWIW, I have never noticed a "tail wag" in either of our Mooneys, but the J does seem to be more pitch stable. This is most noticeable with an aft CG when it is easier to hold altitude when hand flying the J than it is the C. 

That I have heard, and it makes sense that the "short coupled' models are tougher to keep on altitude. An autopilot with ALTHLD handles it fine.  

[nels]

40 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Interesting. Have you flown your E to Denver yet? it looks like a direct, no wind, flight would be easy enough with one stop, in either a E or a J, even with reasonable head wind. It's 947 nm from KLUK to KAPA.  

Tail wag? That a new one to me. But I only have 2500 hours in Es. 

But, your final reason is all you need and it is completely valid. Go for it.

Haven't flown it yet.  It appears there are generally some pretty good head winds going out that will work in my favor on the return. I may try it alone and see how it goes. 

[steingar]

1 hour ago, nels said:

My son and daughter live in Denver. In an E model it will take two stops to get there and one or two to get home to Cincinnati. In a. J, with the additional fuel capacity, it should make it with one stop in either direction.

Long range tanks are available that can easily rectify that.

1 hour ago, nels said:

The other reason for the J is that this will likely be my last plane and I've always wanted one.

Now THAT is a damn fine reason for selling and purchasing a J.  It is the exact same reason I bought my own Mooney.  Always wanted one.  Good luck with your sale and good luck with the acquisition of your new ship.

[Bob - S50]

My wife and I find that we are never limited by how much fuel we carry, but rather how long our butts are willing to remain seated.  For us that's about 3 hours.  However, if my wife wasn't coming along, and I could get about 15 knots of tailwind, it would be cool to be able to say I flew non-stop from Seattle to either Denver or Los Angeles!

I agree with the group.  If you've always wanted one, and your wife doesn't mind, go for it!

[ltdoyle]

I went from a 1965 E to a 1977 J.  Best decision I ever made!  You can throw a ton of money into an E, and it still won't be a J.  Obviously, if I could afford it, you could probably make the same conclusion to go from a J to an Acclaim!

[HRM]

On May 5, 2016 at 11:27 PM, nels said:

I've been looking at J models and have pretty well decided to buy one. Since I'm not a person of great wealth I think it is best to sell my existing airplane, a 66 E model, before buying the next one.

Are you out of your mind?

[ArtVandelay]

On May 5, 2016 at 11:27 PM, nels said: I've been looking at J models and have pretty well decided to buy one. Since I'm not a person of great wealth I think it is best to sell my existing airplane, a 66 E model, before buying the next one.

Are you out of your mind?

Is it the buying or the selling that bothers you?

[HRM]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

Is it the buying or the selling that bothers you?

Selling. For shame.

Oh wait, there will be a buyer. Never mind.