Looking for PIREP on Wet-Wingologist East

[FLYFST]

Well the time has come to reseal the fuel tanks on my M20J and I understand the top two shops for fuel tank resealing are Weep No More and Wet-Wingologist East.  I prefer going to warmer Florida since I'm going to get this done in the next 2 to 3 moths.  I would appreciate any PIREPs, good and bad on Wet-Wingologist East, and private PM is fine with me.

[clh]

Three years and counting.  no problems so far.  with Edison at WW-East

[Hank]

Edison is great. Seven year warranty, no issues. He even drove me to the other airport to catch the airliner home when I dropped mine off. He was done on time, too. Join MAPA, he gives a member discount  (plus you'll get the magazine, access to the mailing lists and to the PPPs).

[Piloto]

This time of the year Florida is a great place to have a tanks reseal. The warm weather helps accelerate the sealant curing. The sealant will not cure below 60F. Edison is very experienced on this job and a great guy. 

José 

[glafaille]

I am a professional pilot looking to buy an older Mooney.  

This is NOT a knock on any company in the tank repair business.  This is my philosophy on tank sealing based on my limited experience shopping for a Mooney.

On my list of desired features of any prospective Mooney, is fuel bladders or professional re-seal by a known Mooney tank specialist.  Two weeks ago I looked at an F model Mooney that had a complete strip and re-seal of both tanks by a well known Mooney specialist.  Box checked!

A review of the logbooks revealed that the seller patched the tanks during annuals for about 3 years before the re-seal.  The aircraft was flown to the tank repair facility and the tanks completely stripped and re-sealed.  All was good for about a year.  Then the problem returned and the tanks were patched at each subsequent annual.  

I inspected the aircraft about 4 years after the re-seal and both tanks were still leaking.  I asked the seller why he didn't take the plane back to the tank repair company for warranty repair, and his reply was "He didn't have the time".  Taking time off from work to fly the airplane somewhere, wait a day or two and fly back, was just too much bother and expense.

So what have I learned from this?

1.  The only SURE way to fix a Mooney tank is a bladder.

2.  A warranty is meaningless if you don't have time to return the plane for repair

3.  The extra weight of the bladders is just "The cost of doing business".

4.  Sealing tanks is tougher than we think

Carefully consider which method of tank repair is best for your own situation.  Personally, I will give preference for prospective aircraft with bladders.

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by glafaille

[ArtVandelay]

I think in another thread the bladder cost went up, close to $15000 IIRC

[Piloto]

Bladder is another option. But notice than none of the new planes have bladders, including airliners.

José 

[ArtVandelay]

Bladder is another option. But notice than none of the new planes have bladders, including airliners.

José 

What about new composite planes: Cirrus, M10?

I would think long term exposure to gas would be a problem.

[glafaille]

21 minutes ago, Piloto said:

Bladder is another option. But notice than none of the new planes have bladders, including airliners.

José 

I don't know about airliners but corporate jet aircraft have wet wings and fuel leaks/seeps are not uncommon.

Bladders certainly seem like a better solution for GA airplanes.

Edited January 27, 2016 by glafaille

[carusoam]

Some tank thoughts...

Some professional pilots fly across the country to get their plane stripped and resealed.  The reputation of the shop is important to them. The reputation of the shop owner is paramount.

Some tank resealers provide a warranty service that includes them going out to see the plane or having your mechanic follow instructions.

One owner around here paid so little to have his tanks stripped and resealed, it was not expected to be successful by most.  He is still here and his tanks live on.

One endless discussion revolves around sealants vs bladders.  Both last for decades.  Storing outdoors is tougher for both types.

There are different solvents that are commercially available. There have been spray systems that have been built by pilots on MS. Effect on paint is an important part of the discussion.

There are a couple of modern sealants with various viscosities that work best for the different tasks involved with tank sealing. 

Current production Mooneys use sealants. My 65C was stored outdoors for decades with old sealant in it's sealed tanks.

There are some tanks that have their sealant self destruct.  Aka worms in the tank.

Well sealed tanks don't care what their owners do for a living.  If this were important, I might ask what the fighter pilots are doing for their Mooney's tanks.  Mooneys don't share a mission with airbuses or F18s.  They aren't made out of fiberglass or carbon fiber.

Just thoughts that come to mind each time somebody comes along and pops the 10AMU question,

-a-

 

 

[KSMooniac]

Composite planes aren't using bladders.

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[Piloto]

There are two ways of sealant application. The one used by Mooney until the Acclaim was the brushed over the assembled structure. This is the same method used on resealing. It works well when properly applied but it is subject to leak if the sealant bonding to surface degrades, such as sealant aging or deterioration or improper cleaning of the surface at the time of application. The later method used by Mooney sandwich the sealant between structure parts (ribs, skin) before they are riveted together. This provides a more reliable leak free condition even if the sealant bonding fails because the sealant is compressed by the structure and rivets. This is the same method used on airliners.

José

[The-sky-captain]

WetWingologists sealed my tanks 12 years ago and they are still leak free.

[FLYFST]

I certainly appreciate all the responses!  I considered the bladders vs. reseal argument when I originally bought the airplane and had already decided that bladders are not for me.  Both shops I mentioned have good reputations, but WW-East is more convenient as I periodically travel to South Florida, so that's where I'm planning to go.

thanks all - Hank

[steingar]

On last factoid to put in the bladder camp.  While looking for my airplane I talked to Joe Cole of Dalton Ga.  According to him the bladders are permanent.  That is, if they start leaking they can be refurbished in situ to new conditions with minimal input.  He said the repair was roughly 1 AMU. Not trying to convince the OP of anything, but something that belongs in this discussion.

[glafaille]

I have heard that once your aircraft is modified for bladders you cannot take it back to a wet wing.  Anyone know if this is true?

[KSMooniac]

I have heard that once your aircraft is modified for bladders you cannot take it back to a wet wing.  Anyone know if this is true?

True

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[cnoe]

FWIW Edison was honest, cooperative, and easy to work with. The current plane owner reports no issues a few years post-reseal. I'd go back there without hesitation.

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[snowds]

Eddie sealed my tanks 3 years ago.  The right wing has started leaking under the non-skid at the entry of the cabin (where one walks).  Eddie has agreed to fix it under warranty as soon as I can get it down there.  He has been very responsive.

One piece of advice: A few months after the reseal, the aux tanks started leaking around the drains, and I had to fly down there to have him put in new drains (not under warranty).  If you are going to go all the way down there, just have everything done and take no shortcuts.

[FLYFST]

Thanks snowds!

[rbridges]

On 1/27/2016 at 9:19 AM, steingar said:

On last factoid to put in the bladder camp.  While looking for my airplane I talked to Joe Cole of Dalton Ga.  According to him the bladders are permanent.  That is, if they start leaking they can be refurbished in situ to new conditions with minimal input.  He said the repair was roughly 1 AMU. Not trying to convince the OP of anything, but something that belongs in this discussion.

I'm not pushing bladders, but I remember someone asking if anyone knew of someone having major issues with their bladders, and I don't remember anyone mentioning anything.  I feel very at ease with mine, but if what someone mentioned about bladder installs pushing 15k is true, I'd have a hard time doing it again.  I did mine roughly 4-5 years ago, and it was under 10 vs a strip/reseal in the 7ish range.

 

[FLYFST]

Thanks!  There are good arguments for both means, but reseal is the way for me.  I just wish the cost (~$8,500) was l way less, but also understand it is a labor intensive job.

[Hank]

It's a smelly, awkward, unpleasant, labor-intensive job. I was quite happy to find someone who chose this as a way to earn his living, with 15 years experience doing it. My arms are too short, my hands are too big, and I'm missing a couple of arm joints (especially the one I need 6" above my wrist to get the oil filter off of the Honda). Edison is great!

[N601RX]

I just looked at O&N's website and the prices look to be inline with what they have been for the last several years. Perhaps a small increase. 

[FLYFST]

I am pretty much set on using WeWingologist-East, but have recently come across these folks: http://houstontankspecialistsllc.com/index.html, and received a happy customer recommendation for them.  Anyone else know anything about them?

Hank