lycman Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 Recently we overhauled a TSIO-360 series engine for a 231 operator that was installed at another location. The owner/operator “disgruntled customer” complained of oil leaks from the accessory case section of the engine and on the left side cylinders pushrod tubes area. The un-happy customer took the aircraft to another general maintenance shop for oil leak repair. We gladly paid the bill for the repair that did not fix the problem. The un-happy customer eventually returned the aircraft to our shop in Sebring SEF. We quickly found that the air/oil separator Walker/Air Wolf was leaking profusely from the middle parting seam of the can and further more the evacuation scat hose that attaches to the bottom of the can and evacuates the breather discharge from the engine compartment was not even there. Upon disassembly of the separator can we found that the cork gasket was absent causing all the breather oil to exit the can at the cans seam. The can was very dirty with sludge. The oil was dripping off the can down on a scat duct that travels down and across the bottom of the engine thus carrying oil down under the left engine cylinder area and all over the rear of the engine allowing it to blow all around the engine. How many owner/operators/mechanics annually maintain their air/oil separator? The air/oil separator can get clogged with a sludge that is developed by a mixture of engine discharge moisture, products of combustion that leaks past the rings. This gassy concoction mixed with engine oil mist is evacuated from the engine thru the breather. Normal prolonged flights allow the system to reach operating temperature allowing the moisture in the crankcase gases to evacuate an air/oil separator normal. Short 20-30 minute flights may not allow the separator to work as designed allowing the moisture to settle in the can mixing with the oil vapor causing a sticky sludge build-up over time. This build-up of sludge clogs the separator drain back line or worse it drains back into the engine. The separator can be regularly removed easily for cleaning. We use parts cleaning solvent here at JB to clean the can and oil drain back line. Remember always inspect the drain back line for any blockage. Installation and assembly of the separator can is very easy and Spruce sells the cork gasket P/N W-2300 for $10.50 so don’t be cheap “buy a new one” and replace it. Check Your Air/Oil Sep and remember to install the overboard scat duct or you could be in for an oily mess as well. JB Aircraft Engines Sebring, FL Quote
DonMuncy Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 If I were the disgruntled customer and was notified of the facts, I would offer to pay you for the "repair" that did not work. If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath. 1 Quote
mike28w Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 Both mechanics that I've asked about my air-oil separator told me that if it isn't causing a problem "don't mess with it"......That never made much sense to me but I followed their advice. I think I'll clean mine out with my next oil change....Thanks for the info !! mike 1 Quote
kris_adams Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 We removed mine when we did the engine overhaul a few years ago. I'm even happier about that decision now that I see this post. Quote
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 I see the problem, you're a "Lycman" not a "Contiman" that in itself could cause a leak!! Clarence Quote
N33GG Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 Air/oil separators have been a mixed bag for me. Good experience on one airplane, not so good on another. I now tend to avoid them, and will only try them, and cautiously at that, as a last resort. Very interesting information. Thanks for the post. Also a good reminder, try not to be the unhappy customer until you have all the facts. And even then, try not to be that guy, ever. Quote
kmyfm20s Posted October 31, 2015 Report Posted October 31, 2015 I removed mine and gained 2 more hours per quart. Quote
Piloto Posted October 31, 2015 Report Posted October 31, 2015 I had the M20 on two engines and never had a problem. José Quote
FlyWalt Posted October 31, 2015 Report Posted October 31, 2015 Jimmy,Since I am the customer in this case I will provide the history of this air / oil separator wrinkle so that we understand what happened. 1. I have never EVER been disgruntled or unhappy with the overhaul or any mechanical work that your shop has done. AND I made a point of communicating how HAPPY I have been with this overhauled motor and the piece of mind that your work has brought to the operation. Our issues have been solely related to discrepancies in communications. I had truly hoped that meeting face to face like we did on Tuesday Oct 27th, would have dispelled much of the irritation between us. 2. The Walker Air/Oil separator was installed by the previous owner in 1995. Log entries going forward do not show any maint being done by his IA on this unit. 3. My company purchased the aircraft in 2012. It had been annualed by 3 different shops since then. Amazingly, no one has ever mentioned doing anything to the air/oil separator. 4. Following the overhaul, small oil leaks had developed at about 50 hours SMOH. I communicated this to Jimmy and asked that he allow us to have them resolved by a shop where I get mid year maintenance done to avoid a second maint ferry flight. Jimmy agreed to let them look into it. That shop diagnosed it as a push rod tube leak and an unseen leak from behind the accessory case. They resolved the push rod tube leak. However, they advised me to take it to JB for the accessory case leak as they felt it was something that the people who overhauled the engine should put their eyes on. On Oct 27th, I pulled up on the ramp at JB AIrcraft Engines at 8:55. By 9:30 they had found the problem. By 11:30 they had completed the clean up and repairs. Upon return to my hangar we noted no leaks after the 1.5 hour flight. Compliments to JB and crew for their professionalism in handling this matter Quote
chrisk Posted October 31, 2015 Report Posted October 31, 2015 I'm really enjoying this thread. It's wonderful to see a good outcome. And it is really nice to know how the story turns out. It sounds like both JB and FlyWalt are happy campers now. Quote
lycman Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Posted November 10, 2015 On 10/31/2015, 12:42:03, FlyWalt said: Jimmy, Since I am the customer in this case I will provide the history of this air / oil separator wrinkle so that we understand what happened. 1. I have never EVER been disgruntled or unhappy with the overhaul or any mechanical work that your shop has done. AND I made a point of communicating how HAPPY I have been with this overhauled motor and the piece of mind that your work has brought to the operation. Our issues have been solely related to discrepancies in communications. I had truly hoped that meeting face to face like we did on Tuesday Oct 27th, would have dispelled much of the irritation between us. 2. The Walker Air/Oil separator was installed by the previous owner in 1995. Log entries going forward do not show any maint being done by his IA on this unit. 3. My company purchased the aircraft in 2012. It had been annualed by 3 different shops since then. Amazingly, no one has ever mentioned doing anything to the air/oil separator. 4. Following the overhaul, small oil leaks had developed at about 50 hours SMOH. I communicated this to Jimmy and asked that he allow us to have them resolved by a shop where I get mid year maintenance done to avoid a second maint ferry flight. Jimmy agreed to let them look into it. That shop diagnosed it as a push rod tube leak and an unseen leak from behind the accessory case. They resolved the push rod tube leak. However, they advised me to take it to JB for the accessory case leak as they felt it was something that the people who overhauled the engine should put their eyes on. On Oct 27th, I pulled up on the ramp at JB AIrcraft Engines at 8:55. By 9:30 they had found the problem. By 11:30 they had completed the clean up and repairs. Upon return to my hangar we noted no leaks after the 1.5 hour flight. Compliments to JB and crew for their professionalism in handling this matter Thanks Walt That was one of the easier oil leaks we have tackled.. This post was for informational purposes only and I never intended to expose you as my Air/Sep disgrunXX customer and I agree it was a good visit. No irritation here! Thanks for the chance to look things over and let me know if any other issues come up that we can help with. JB Quote
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