Don't be "That Guy"

[GeorgePerry]

In all of these cases, I think the golden rule applies...Some situations are obvious (don't block the fuel pump) and some vary depending on a host of factors, like how one defines a "wide" pattern.  I've always found that when differences arise, simply asking the other person (in a courteous and respectful way) for an accommodation is typically met with agreement. 

 

[M016576]

In all of these cases, I think the golden rule applies...Some situations are obvious (don't block the fuel pump) and some vary depending on a host of factors, like how one defines a "wide" pattern.  I've always found that when differences arise, simply asking the other person (in a courteous and respectful way) for an accommodation is typically met with agreement. 

 

exactly... Don't judge too quickly- you never know what's going on in the other cockpit..... Until you ask.  I've found that out the hard way a few times when performing a "ready, fire, aim."

[irishpilot]

if only us "normal" pilots could be as good the USAF ... and learn how the USAF does it ... 

Pros and cons to each. Jumping in a AF jet and flying VFR without turning the transponder on is generally frowned upon. When Uncle Sam is paying the bills, you lose a lot of freedom. That is why GA flying is so awesome!

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[1964-M20E]

I have had several experiences of pilots (having already fueled their plane) proceed to block access to a self-serve pump to unload/load their plane and use "The facilities"...

Don't be "That Guy".

Move your plane after you fuel it to allow others arriving or departing to get access to the pumps.

The same person is at the gas station for your car too.

[Andy95W]

Jumping in a AF jet and flying VFR without turning the transponder on is generally frowned upon.

 

What about not turning your F-16 when ATC tells you and instead colliding with a Cessna 150, killing the innocent pilot and his father?

Sorry.  Still a bit pissed off about that one.  Wonder what the USAF board of inquiry is going to find about that (if anything).

[Hector]

Boy, this thread took a down turn quick. You all play nice now.....

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[irishpilot]

What about not turning your F-16 when ATC tells you and instead colliding with a Cessna 150, killing the innocent pilot and his father?

Sorry.  Still a bit pissed off about that one.  Wonder what the USAF board of inquiry is going to find about that (if anything).

I don't think that is a fair statement to the F-16 pilot or the two who were killed. I respect your anger but disagree with how you voiced it. Have a nice day and fly safe.

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[MyNameIsNobody]

Deleted.  Because my German got outdone by my Irish in my reply. (heritage)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2015 by MyNameIsNobody

[irishpilot]

To all, my intent was not to state overtly or otherwise, that military pilots are better. I am sorry if it came across that way. I have been active as a GA pilot for over 20 years and will be active long after the military. I love the freedom and culture that comes with GA flying. I wouldn't be on this site otherwise.

If any of you feel that I've alienated you, please drop me a PM so we can discuss further. I mean that sincerely as I really enjoy this forum for the wealth of info relating to all things Mooney.

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[Shadrach]

The posts communicate why it took "that" turn.  Condescension, one of my most despised traits in humans.  Since this thread is about  not doing a behavior....

Irish Pilot-My interpretation is that you stated that military pilots "are superior"...as they should be and I believe that they indeed likely "are"...when it comes to flying military aircraft...the way the military wants them to.  It is part of being a career professional. Being good at what you do and taking pride in it.  There is pride...and there is boasting at others expense.

ONLY my interpretation.  BUT I own that.  

The F-16 may or may NOT own that incident, but I too have not forgotten, want answers and don't want to hear how much "better" they are than us GA pilots.

A "nerve" was touched...

Don't be that guy that turns off your transponder either...If you have one...USE IT.

DO be that guy that treats traffic like impending death and does ALL he/she can do to avert it.

They are certainly not all pros. It takes a small group to cause issues.

I live precisely 5 miles south of the approach end date of runway 27 at KHGR (basically 5mls abeam). One Sunday, just a few months after the F16 incident down south, I had a C17 come over my house so low I could see the detail in the gear wells (if he was 500ft AGL, I'd be quite surprised). I could hear the windows on my sun room rattling and I was in the front yard. I like airplanes and airplane noises but this scared the $hit out of me, it was so loud that I thought we were about to be part of a crash site. Then the airplane appeared above the tree canopy and made a hard 60degree right bank . There was not a baby that remained asleep nor a dog that was not howling in my end of town. My neighbors are not the types of folks who use expletives casually, but there were a number of "What the #*&% is going on?" directed at me. I called the tower and politely asked if perhaps the C5 in the pattern had his altimeter set incorrectly. Tower sarcastically told me it was a C17 and that he was at TPA (2200msl/1500agl). I said there was no way. Tower proceeded to hang up on me. I called back and asked why he hung up on me. "You called me a liar". I said that I had not and he said asked if I was done. I then called a buddy at the drome to ask if he knew who was in the tower and explained the situation . He said he did not, but that a low alt alert had just been issued to the C17 that on climb out (T&Gs or low approach) he instructed the pilot that he had to be at TPA moving forward. In this case both the pilot and then tower were complete a$$holes. Makes you so pleased to see tax dollars at work.

[Shadrach]

To all, my intent was not to state overtly or otherwise, that military pilots are better. I am sorry if it came across that way. I have been active as a GA pilot for over 20 years and will be active long after the military. I love the freedom and culture that comes with GA flying. I wouldn't be on this site otherwise.

 

If any of you feel that I've alienated you, please drop me a PM so we can discuss further. I mean that sincerely as I really enjoy this forum for the wealth of info relating to all things Mooney.

 

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It's nothing personal. I think most on this site, (myself included) are very pro armed forces. But there's no reason to risk civilian lives outside a war zone.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Shadrach

[Mooneymite]

One thing to keep in mind when judging military pilots is that the military is very much a training ground.

While we like to think of all military pilots as "Blues", or Thunderbird pilots, the vast majority are still learning.  When a young aviator in the military gets his/her wings, it is just the beginning of a long process of learning their mission aircraft, the mission and how to interface with the civil aviation world.  Lot's of mistakes are made along the (very steep) learning curve.

Military pilots may all be dedicated Americans, but they are NOT necessarily all "seasoned aviators".....yet.

If you've ever been scared by something that a military aircraft did...just think how scared the young instructor sitting next to the pilot under instruction must have felt!  

 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Mooneymite

[Shadrach]

On 9/28/2015 at 3:14 PM, Mooneymite said:

One thing to keep in mind when judging military pilots is that the military is very much a training ground.

While we like to think of all military pilots as "Blues", or Thunderbird pilots, the vast majority are still learning.  When a young aviator in the military gets his/her wings, it is just the beginning of a long process of learning their mission aircraft, the mission and how to interface with the civil aviation world.  Lot's of mistakes are made along the (very steep) learning curve.

Military pilots may all be dedicated Americans, but they are NOT necessarily all "seasoned aviators".....yet.

If you've ever been scared by something that a military aircraft did...just think how scared the young instructor sitting next to him must have felt!  

The thing that irked me is the appearance that both the tower and the PF both knew what was going on. If they had not, then the radio communications that took place after would not have been needed. If the tower had simply said, "we apologize for the situation, it won't happen again", that would've diffused everything. Keep in mind that I too was once young, dumb and new to aviation. I never "accidentally" dusted off a house or in this case a whole neighborhood. I did some stupid things, but I was fully aware that I was doing something stupid while I was doing it. I think that's exactly what was taking place over my neighborhood, only with a $220,000,000 tax payer owned airplane burning 12,000lbs of JP-8 per hour. With that privilege comes a responsibility that was being ignored that day.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Shadrach

[MyNameIsNobody]

To all, my intent was not to state overtly or otherwise, that military pilots are better. I am sorry if it came across that way. I have been active as a GA pilot for over 20 years and will be active long after the military. I love the freedom and culture that comes with GA flying. I wouldn't be on this site otherwise.

 

If any of you feel that I've alienated you, please drop me a PM so we can discuss further. I mean that sincerely as I really enjoy this forum for the wealth of info relating to all things Mooney.

 

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I appologize.  I served.  I'm good.  Post deleted...Fly Safe 

[MyNameIsNobody]

"Who is the best pilot you know"?

 

"You're looking at him"-Gordo Cooper

[Andy95W]

My take away from this topic is that we all need to be vigilant of our actions, certainly myself included.  Whether professional, military, or private, we are all ultimately responsible for our actions when it comes to safety or just being a jerk at the fuel pump.

[Marauder]

After reading a number of the different forums, one thing I do know... I'd rather be a Mooney guy... While other sites are worried about part prices, Hershey bar wings, cost of ballistic chute repacking, etc., all we are worried about is whether our Johnson bar is firmly engaged or not.

Pleasure serving with the rest of you Mooniacs...

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[MyNameIsNobody]

The thing that irked me is the appearence that both the tower and the PF both knew what was going on. If they had not, then the radio communications that took place after would not have been needed. If the tower had simply said, "we apologize for the situation, it won't happen again", that'd difused everything. Keep in mind that I too was once young dumb and new to aviation. I never "accidently" dusted off a house or in this case a whole neighberhood. I did some stupid things, but I was fully aware that I was doing something stupid while I was doing it. I think that's exactly what was taking place over my neighberhood, only with a $220,000,000 tax payer owned airplane burning 12,000lbs of JP-8 per hour. With that priveledge comes a responsibility that was being ignored that day.

They were totally singing "Highway to the Danger Zone" with their mirrored iceman shades glistening with the reflection of your rooftop.  Hope you didn't get coffee on your shirt

[wishboneash]

 

 

After reading a number of the different forums, one thing I do know... I'd rather be a Mooney guy... While other sites are worried about part prices, Hershey bar wings, cost of ballistic chute repacking, etc., all we are worried about is whether our Johnson bar is firmly engaged or not.

 

and if the tanks are leaking! 

[Hank]

There's something to be said for being wet . . .

(yes, I've resealed my tanks.)

[bradp]

Since we're on that note, today we were practicing landings at Princeton, NJ. One 172 was flying a pattern larger than a 747, and I would know because I have flown a smaller pattern in a 747. We did two 80-knot 360s on downwind waiting for them to complete their no-kidding 5 mile final at 60 knot landing.   This was after waiting until they were on crosswind to takeoff after them. 

The fun didn't end there. They would also brake like mad and miss the midfield turnoff, then release the brakes and taxi at 10 knots to the end to turn off.  That took two minutes.  All those airplanes going around because of that I don't think they even thought about. 

Ha. I had the opposite experience at Princeton. Don't be the C172 that assumes the Mooney in front of you has a jet like approach speed and rollout and then tailgate on short final so that your wheels are touching down as said Mooney is just exiting the midfield taxiway. By the way Cessna 172, in your effort to ride the a$$ of the mooney, you blew by the midfield turnoff.

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[PTK]

Here's another winner.

Don't be the Cherokee 140 who, without mumbling a word, ignores Mooney on short final for 26 and proceeds to taxi into position on 8 and sits there just as Mooney touches down!

Edited September 29, 2015 by PTK

[Marauder]

Ha. I had the opposite experience at Princeton. Don't be the C172 that assumes the Mooney in front of you has a jet like approach speed and rollout and then tailgate on short final so that your wheels are touching down as said Mooney is just exiting the midfield taxiway. By the way Cessna 172, in your effort to ride the a$$ of the mooney, you blew by the midfield turnoff.

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Pretty funny! I did my primary training at Princeton in the late 80s'. It was a beehive of activity with a taxiway on the north side of the runway. We had everything from people learning how to track the taxiway center line to people shooting approaches. It was truly the wild, wild east back then.

When I flew over there one Saturday last year to meet up with Anthony, it was a shell of its former self.

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[Mooneymite]

 

.... it was a shell of its former self.

 

Unfortunately, GA is a shell of its former self most everywhere.  Saturdays are slack days in the 135 world, so I spend a lot of time sitting at little airports watching little airplanes....or, more correctly, not watching them.  While Saturdays used to be busy days for general aviation, so many of the airports have virtually nothing going on.  Most of the FBO's say it it weren't for business flying, there wouldn't be any flying at all.

On Saturdays of yore the FBO's were full of instructors and students briefing while the pattern was full of people staying current.

Now, mostly.....nothing/no one.

I would be hopeful that the falling price of avgas might turn the situation around, but too many FBO's are not dropping their prices.  Sitting here in PWM today, SS avgas is $6.10, FS is $6.60.

Is it greed, or survival?

[Oldguy]

And don't be that guy in the Cub who, upon seeing no one else in the pattern, does tear-drop touch-and-goes. You know, take off on RWY 3 and land RWY 21, then take off RWY 21 and land RWY 3 and keep it up for a while. Because when you are coming into the area, you see him and hear nothing on the radio.